Matrix Games Forums

Hi all,

Having played through the tutorial a few times, and a few of the smaller scenario’s I’m about ready to kick off a stock scenario 15 against the AI as the allies. So I’m hoping for a few pointers at to what I should be doing on the first turn, and what my aims are for the first few months…

First off, I understand that my first long(ish) term aim should be to avoid an AI auto-victory in ‘43, and the best way to do this is to avoid massive LCU losses. Is this right? Or should I be look at other goals for the mid ‘42/early ’43 timeframe?

Here are my basic plans. Advice would be great! Otherwise feel free to poke fun at them!

Alaska/Aleutians/Canada:
Nothing much to do. Maybe abandon Nome, and move the forces to Dutch Harbour. Is it possible/useful to build Dutch harbour up and stick a sub tender in there?

USA:
Strip troops/aircraft from here, ship the bulk to Perl/Midway. The rest will go to Fiji, Pago Pago and Australia. Ship supply’s to Perl and New Zealand/Australia. Does a base with no base force ship supplys out? There is a base force in the United States base that I guess could find useful employment elsewhere if it’s not needed. Convert a number of the large AK’s to other classes.

Hawaii:
Dig in most of the troops. Ship some to Midway if I manage to hold on to it past the first few turns. Run some of the damaged ships back to the west coast to get most use out of the repair bases there. Do people build up French Frigate Shoals and Johnson Island up at the beginning, or should I wait until I know the Japanese are definitely not going there? Some undamaged USN boats (the CA/CL’s there look quite useful) will head to the DEI and PI to hopefully catch some lightly escorted invasion forces.

South Pacific:
I assume I’m looking to hold on to Fiji and Pago Pago to keep a SLOC open between the west coast and Australia. Should these bases be reinforced? And do I need to worry about Noumea and Luganville as well? Will the AI come across this far without attacking New Zealand first?

New Zealand/Australia:
Units in southern Oz will be shifted to Port Moresby and Guadalcanal. Units on the South Island will go to Fiji.

New Guinea:
I have no idea how aggressive the AI is, but I guess if it’s quick it could be hitting New Guinea by mid ’42 if I screw up holding on the PI? My plan it to get Port Moresby built up as soon as possible to use it as a base to the 4 engine bombers that are on the way. I am thinking of PM as my line in the sand, and if it falls I’ll be looking at starting a new game!

Philippines:
Pull everything back to Manila and Clark and make a stand. What I do after depends on how the fighting goes I guess. Transport ships mostly go to Oz/DEI, keep some around to grab the supplys from the distant PI bases to keep Clark fighting. Warships also go to Austraila, but do I run them out on the first turn or hold on until the end of Jan ’42 in the hope that his surface fleets have moved on? Sub’s all get used to attack the invasion forces. Do I ship out the aircraft here to stop them getting slaughtered? Turn off all the repair options on the factorys to avoid them sucking up supplys.

Dutch East India:
Hold on to these for as long as I can. The aim being to pull back to, and hold Java.

Malaya/Siam/Indochina/Burma:
Fall back to Singapore in the south, shipping the troops out to Java if possible. In Burma I’m going to try and reinforce from India and hold the line a Mandalay. Royal Navy ships out to India. Does the AI invade the west coast of Malaya? And will it try to attack Sumatra/Java before it has captured Singapore?

India:
Most of the troops here will be heading to Burma at the first chance I get.

China:
[&:] Any pointers would be very useful.

Well, I think that about covers my plans for the first 12 months of the war. Seem about right, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Just so you understand. If you do all you have listed you should win by December 1942. If you don't, consider it a loss to the AI. The AI can not take advantage of your moves, it can only do what it has been told to do. Most of what you are planning( stripping the WC, moving all India forces to Burma, etc. ) will overwhelm it. A human player would make you pay for those moves.

Is the AI rearly that weak? How should I change the plans to give the AI a chance?
 
I understood the AI tryed to play to a historical timeline, so the plans where based on what I would have done in '41. For example I'm not planned to strip the WC and India down to the bone, it was just an overview of what was going to go from and to where.
 
Like the AI I'd planned to try and run to something like an historical timeline, but I was worryed that the AI would be handing me my arse after the first few months.

I wrote this about 2 years ago. The only thing I would add is too get all your 4E bombers together at one base. Hope it helps:

Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Or Running and hiding for dummies)


OK, it is December 8th, 1941 and your fleet just got the snot kicked out of it. How are you ever going to manage to recover and achieve ultimate victory?

The road will be long but the first 6 months are the key. Follow the suggestions listed below and you will have a good chance of surviving and achieving that ultimate victory.

Above all remember one thing throughout these early dark days: You don’t have to win the war in the first 6 months… just make sure you don’t lose it.

PH:

First wait for the KB to leave. Before sending any ships back to the mainland for repair you must clear the area of subs. Put a few LBA units on ASW patrol and form ASW TFs to clear the surrounding waters. Then send the moderately damaged ships to West coast ports (Splitting them up to maximize ship yards). The seriously and lightly damaged ships should stay put.

Send the carriers South until the KB leaves then pull then into PH. Send out every sub you can setting Singapore as it’s new base.

West Coast.

Load tankers with oil and pair them with AKs with supply or fuel and send them to Sydney via Suva. This will avoid the Jap air units. Load everyone else up with supplies and fuel and send them the same way. Every LCU and LBA unit that can be loaded should also be sent to OZ via this route. Order several AS/AE/AR/ MLE units. Don’t worry about ADs.

Wake/Midway

If Wake holds send DMs and MLs from PH to mine Wake. Brining PT boats up also helps. Have the units dig in and wait for round 2. You may even consider fast transporting a CD gun unit up to reinforce the defenders. IF Wake fall do all of this at Midway. Consider moving an AS up there to act as a forward sub base.

PI

Initiate Operation “Get the hell out of Dodge” as soon as possible. Load every AK with resources or fuel and every TK with oil or fuel and head to Darwin. You will have to move the oil out later but don’t worry about that now. Also evacuate every base force that is not in a hex with combat units. They will only get overrun anyway so get them out. PT boats and subs out of Manila and can harass the invasion fleets. Just before the curtain falls evacuate the air units to China or Darwin and pull out base forces and HQs by sub. The PP cost is almost nothing if they have been worn down. They will regrow to fight another day. Surface ships should go to Serobaja (sp) to consolidate. They will eventually go to OZ.

DEI

Don’t discount the Dutch. They put up a hell of a fight despite their obsolete equipment. If the real Dutch units fought like this they deserve our utmost respect. First sortie every sub and sent them towards Malaya and base them out of Singapore. They will exact a huge toll. Consolidate your air units into 1 or 2 bases so as to launch massive air strikes against relatively unprotected transports. Send the PT boats up to Singapore to help there. Like in the PI evacuate every base force that is not with a combat unit to Darwin. As the end nears pull out the others and as many air units as you can to Darwin. The Dutch recon units later fly F-5a recon planes. Take every drop of oil, fuel, and resources to OZ as soon as possible. All you need is supplies. You don’t need the resourses but you can deny them to the enemy. Use you consolidated naval units to raid forward beaches where transports are unloading then run for OZ. Use the MLs to drop a present before running to India or OZ.

Malaya

It is going to fall. Just make it take time and cost Japs. Immediately pull every base force and air unit into fortress Singapore and start building forts. Have the other units put up a delaying action then run for the fort. Use the Dutch PTs to raid the nearby beaches. Task Force Z is a must. Even though it is doomed to fail, politically it must be done. Pull any survivors back to the DEI for a fight there. The air units out of Singapore can eventually fly to China or to Burma to fight on. At the end use subs to pull out samples of units so they can be reformed later. Remember that South East Asia is not a restricted command so no PPs need be spent. Get transports and warships out under Operation “Brave Sir Robin” (Run away!) Make sure to take fuel and resources with you.

Burma

Sending Chinese units to take Hanoi can divert units away from Malaya and destroy HI. Make sure you have a path back to China.

India

Move everyone up near Dacca and dig in. Be willing to surrender everything South. 2-3k worth of dug in units will stop any Jap advance. Use cargo TFs to run fuel and supplies to OZ via a route away from the DEI. Consider moving the AVG in to help. Air units out of Dacca can harass the Jap advance.

China

Aside from a raid on Hanoi, dig in. Don’t worry about building airfields until you have level 9 forts. Spreading out your units allows for what has been called the “Cat herding defense”. By staying off the roads the Japs must either follow you into the bush or risk being cut off. Either one slows the advance and allows time for other units to dig in.

OZ

This is where you run and hide to. Build every airfield to it’s max before worrying about ports or forts. Concentrated air power is all that will stop the Japs. Move everything up to the Cairns/Townsville area as well as sending some units to Darwin to assist the survivors of the DEI. Don’t worry about PM until the front has stabilized. Even if the Japs take it early you can pound it by air and starve it out. Once the units arrive from the US you should be able to hold off any further Jap advances.

CV Units

Hide until you are even in number to the KB. Only use them for quick raids against shipping when you know the KB is far away and the LBA is weak. Lose them early and you could lose the war.

This is a general outline of what has worked for me. Any comments are welcome.

< Message edited by RUPD3658 -- 11/30/2004 10:53:27 PM >

ORIGINAL: Andy_MKST
First off, I understand that my first long(ish) term aim should be to avoid an AI auto-victory in ‘43, and the best way to do this is to avoid massive LCU losses. Is this right? Or should I be look at other goals for the mid ‘42/early ’43 timeframe?

The AI is not going to get an auto victory, it's just not competent enough. Against a human probably looking to start aggression around end of 42, beginning of 43. Against the AI you never really have to become fully defensive.

Alaska/Aleutians/Canada:
Nothing much to do. Maybe abandon Nome, and move the forces to Dutch Harbour. Is it possible/useful to build Dutch harbour up and stick a sub tender in there?

For the first year nothing much to do here. Taking RCT out of Nome is reasonable. Dutch Harbour is really too far out of the way to be a useful sub base. PH is better if Midway is not avaliable.

USA:
Strip troops/aircraft from here, ship the bulk to Perl/Midway. The rest will go to Fiji, Pago Pago and Australia. Ship supply’s to Perl and New Zealand/Australia. Does a base with no base force ship supplys out? There is a base force in the United States base that I guess could find useful employment elsewhere if it’s not needed. Convert a number of the large AK’s to other classes.

Reinforcing Midway, except with an RCT or 1/3rd of a division, isn't much use early on. You are better off trying to secure the route to Oz, i.e. palmyra, Canton, Pago-Pago, Suva. Against a human reinforcing PH is vital to deter early trikes. Against AI not so important. Try to keep a good force there

You don't need base forces to ship supplies but it is probably gamey not to have a base force in your west coast ports. It will also cause problem with aircraft reinforcements arriving in locations without proper support.

Hawaii:
Dig in most of the troops. Ship some to Midway if I manage to hold on to it past the first few turns. Run some of the damaged ships back to the west coast to get most use out of the repair bases there. Do people build up French Frigate Shoals and Johnson Island up at the beginning, or should I wait until I know the Japanese are definitely not going there? Some undamaged USN boats (the CA/CL’s there look quite useful) will head to the DEI and PI to hopefully catch some lightly escorted invasion forces.

Don't build up bases in the vicinity of your main bases, as it only gives him a ready made platform once he takes them. One way to slow him down is to keep facilities low, forcing him to build them himself. It also uses up his supply, not yours. You can build up these platforms when required for your own operations.

South Pacific:
I assume I’m looking to hold on to Fiji and Pago Pago to keep a SLOC open between the west coast and Australia. Should these bases be reinforced? And do I need to worry about Noumea and Luganville as well? Will the AI come across this far without attacking New Zealand first?

The AI will take GCanal, definite, and try for Pt Moresby. If you try hard you should be able prevent him from taking both of these. The AI is unlikely to extend his empire much beyond these bounds. Against a human you probably can't defned all of these, so you would have to choose a couple and make those extremely hard targets.

New Zealand/Australia:
Units in southern Oz will be shifted to Port Moresby and Guadalcanal. Units on the South Island will go to Fiji.

Moving Oz/NZ divisions will be very expensive PP wise, so can only move one now and then. Don't forget your are going to be paying to rescue DEI/USAFFE forces as well. The SWPac forces are free to move. Moving S Island forces against AI is fine, against a human an attack on NZ is always a possibility.

New Guinea:
I have no idea how aggressive the AI is, but I guess if it’s quick it could be hitting New Guinea by mid ’42 if I screw up holding on the PI? My plan it to get Port Moresby built up as soon as possible to use it as a base to the 4 engine bombers that are on the way. I am thinking of PM as my line in the sand, and if it falls I’ll be looking at starting a new game!

You should be able to hold PM if you want to. Even if you loose it you can still beat the AI.

Philippines:
Pull everything back to Manila and Clark and make a stand. What I do after depends on how the fighting goes I guess. Transport ships mostly go to Oz/DEI, keep some around to grab the supplys from the distant PI bases to keep Clark fighting. Warships also go to Austraila, but do I run them out on the first turn or hold on until the end of Jan ’42 in the hope that his surface fleets have moved on? Sub’s all get used to attack the invasion forces. Do I ship out the aircraft here to stop them getting slaughtered? Turn off all the repair options on the factorys to avoid them sucking up supplys.

Probably best to try to hold the PI as long as possible. Other wise the game will be a little one sided to you. Do save the naval HQ and the 14th PS Eng Rgt as these are very valuable units to the allies but everything else can be used to fight. A very good player can even hold PI against the AI.

Dutch East India:
Hold on to these for as long as I can. The aim being to pull back to, and hold Java.

Malaya/Siam/Indochina/Burma:
Fall back to Singapore in the south, shipping the troops out to Java if possible. In Burma I’m going to try and reinforce from India and hold the line a Mandalay. Royal Navy ships out to India. Does the AI invade the west coast of Malaya? And will it try to attack Sumatra/Java before it has captured Singapore?

It will probably attack Sumatra/Java before Sing falls proper. I have never heard of the AI attacking the west coast of Malaya. Again, a robust defense of Singapore will cause the AI problems.

India:
Most of the troops here will be heading to Burma at the first chance I get.

This is reasonable against AI but you wouldn't want to try this against a human.

China:
[&:] Any pointers would be very useful.

I would recommend not fighting in China. The AI will probably take Changsha then do nothing. It is too gamey to defeat the Japanese in China as it puts you right on there doorstep very early. Unless you really want to, I would just go on the defensive in China.

These are just my thoughts.

Thanks for the follow up guys...
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I guess I'll soon be looking for a tame Japanese player to show me the ropes!

The main thing for the Allies in 1942 is to focus on not losing the game. Worry about winning it after mid 1943.

It is almost impossible to loose against the AI.&nbsp; If you want to give it somewhat of a chance, put the DEI and China under computer control.&nbsp; That way you can't out think the AI.&nbsp; Maybe even India.&nbsp; If you want to practice abandoning the PI to get ready for your first email game, put the troops you got from PI and other places from DEI in some out of the way island and let them rot.&nbsp;&nbsp;If those LCU and&nbsp;squadrons manage to escape&nbsp;you will be winning the game in late 42.&nbsp; The only thing that keeps the Allies out of Tokyo in late 42 is the lack of experience pilots and carrier TF control.&nbsp; You will acquire that in '43 and '44 and you want to make the game last that long.
&nbsp;
In my first campaign I put every front on computer control.&nbsp; I realized that logistics was going to be the most difficult set of rules to figure out.&nbsp; So I just set every out of the way port&nbsp;to automatic convoy (that won't hurt you in this case, you are playing againt the AI, remember?) and played the west coast, Pearl and Noumea.&nbsp; When I felt able to expand my playing experience, I transferred each front to human control as I felt ready for it.
&nbsp;
Remember, you are playing against the AI, you can't loose.
&nbsp;
One last comment.&nbsp; There is no reason you can't take control of the Japanese every so often to help them out.

The japanese AI in historical mode will not use the KB as historically used my game against the AI was extremely boring I was expecting strikes deep into the indian ocean and against brisbane NOTHING happened the AI kept the KB cruising in the south China sea use either hard mode or just go straight to PBEM!

if you want my advice, just try and test different things, thats the emphasis of the game, doing as you see best and doing as you see fit...do that for your first game, even if you lose youll have alot of fun, if you ask people "what should i do?" like this it takes away most of the fun....just my opinion...i recommend starting the campaign that begins in may '42 and goes till '46 (or '45, dont remember)