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Those are adding some nice touch to the game but one of those is a bit of a non-sense.

Netherlands and Belgium join the Western Alliance

Being Belgian I can assure that we wouldn't even dream to take on Germany single handed if France is already conquered. In WW1 we were occupied 4 years and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Our small country wouldn't have dare move against Germany especially if you imagine Germany letting us keep our Neutrality by taking on France through the Maginot Line and crushing them in a few weeks.

I would think one condition should be added for this event to take place that France is not already conquered and Vichy installed.

In this case we would have been very happy to stay Neutral and sadly enough we might even have elected a pro-nazi government with the infamous Leon Degrelle. This make me think that in case the Low Countries are Allied Leaning they should go back to Balanced state when France is conquered. Not doing business with Germany out of good will but more not to upset them.

Does this not represent Belgium and the Netherlands simply seeing the writing on the wall... Belgium is a useful short-cut into France, and perhaps it was easier to mobilse before invasion, rather than after it?
 
 
 
In other notes - check out 'GRAND ILLUSION' by GMT games, features the 1914 German campaign to cut through Belgium - excellent game.
 
 

Yeah, I live here as well and "cutting through Belgium" has happened too many times; I agree that this event should be tied to an Active France, if not, it is pure fantasy.  The only reason the King (Leopold III) did not immediately throw his cards in with the Allies was his futile hope of keeping his country out of yet another conflict on his own soil.  Their joining up with a defeated WA is.......beyond ridiculous.  Increase the activation chance while France is still WA instead....far more realistic and better for the game as well.  Great Point Polonthi, I live in Mons and work at SONACA by Charleroi, how about you?

ORIGINAL: templeton

Does this not represent Belgium and the Netherlands simply seeing the writing on the wall... Belgium is a useful short-cut into France, and perhaps it was easier to mobilse before invasion, rather than after it?

This is absolutely true and Belgium should mobilise indeed but this is more about declaring war to Germany while there is no invasion. Like Britain attacking Germany without them invading Poland first. Just doesn't make sense.

In fact for me this event shouldn't just be in the game at all. Or Germany cut through Belgium and need to declare war anyway or Germany choose to be nice and go through the Maginot Line which as a result would leave Belgium and the Netherlands more than happy to stay Neutrals.

Now I'll be happy with just putting a condition that France should not be overunned yet for it to happen. Let's say it's the last minute choice of our king to be one of the good guys [;)] but it still doesn't explain the Netherlands joining the fight as well.

PS: I'm living in Singapore working for a Belgian IT company.

ORIGINAL: Polonthi

In fact for me this event shouldn't just be in the game at all. Or Germany cut through Belgium and need to declare war anyway or Germany choose to be nice and go through the Maginot Line which as a result would leave Belgium and the Netherlands more than happy to stay Neutrals.

I think you might be missing several key details here:
1) Belgium (I really can' talk about Holland since I truly do not know) came a hairs breadth away from allowing WA forces onto their soil just before the invasion, in fact, the Bridges over the Albert canal and all the major fortress systems were fully manned and on alert (they just did not count on gliders/paras coming in and had never tained for it!)  So it is not as though the Germans came unexpectedly.  Whatever his faults (and that is highly debatable once you have read "the Prisoner at Laeken" and know that he was no traitor) he was actively cooperating with the WA liasons (French & British troops walked into Belgium the same day of the invasion) even providing them the original attack plan captured from those luftwaffe pogues in the ardennes area.
2) Political pressure would eventually have forced parliament's hand on the issue, they could not possibly have stood by forever while the Germans massed up on the border.

But I do agree that the activation should NEVER happen after the fall of France.  It is not only folly, but in game terms it buys a free WR point for the Axis no DoW of a neutral.)

Note that mountainous and peninsular Greece is a much different situation and I fully agree with the rules pertaining to it, in game experience, I have only see it go Allied late in the war and (usually) acts as a dagger to the back of an already sorely hurting Germany.

To be honest I'm not that familiar about the fact if Belgium would have side with the Allies before the invasion. I know the French army was all to ready to move in Belgium to avoid the same Schlieffen plan of 1914 to be applied which just was the gamble of the German in 1940 and instead of trying to surround the armies of Alsace-Lorraine to surround the armies rushing into Belgium.

The German plan to be a success needed the French armies to rush to the help of Belgium so I can imagine the German putting pressure on Belgium to make sure everyone believed Belgium to be invaded. The attack on The Netherlands was not really needed but again it was to make the French rush to that border to stop the German armies. When the Allies did exactly that the German high command was very much relieved of their fears about this campaign.

Now if Germany do a change in Strategy and plan to invade via the Maginot Line then one could imagine the German diplomats doing their best to reassure Belgium about their neutrality.

At last thanks for saying it as indeed our King was no traitor and Belgium did fight as they could but it was too much too fast. Most agree now to say that surrendering didn't change anything at that time but was a good excuse for the Allies to find a scapegoat to explain this disaster.

At last I'm more debating as you said the folly of declaring war after the Fall of France. This would be the suicide of a country for no benefits. Now it may save a WR for Germany but it also is a beachead in the middle of Europe for the British in case Barbarossa is already on. Too dangerous for the German to ignore.

So I still think this event shouldn't happen after the fall of France and those countries should go back to Balance state at the moment of Vichy creation and Germany should have a fair chance to do a Trade Agreement with them (more under pressure than by free will but still with the same results).

About Greece I would even go further by saying that the Italian "border war" with Greece was more a war than a skirmish. A war so badly done by the Italians that the Greeks were pushing them back into Albania. Without the German offensive you could dream of the Italians swimming back to Italy

For this event I would say that if War is not declared to Greece by the Axis then the Italian need to Garrison Albania with a few militias (enough to make it embarrasing) or to loose Albania.

I find your diplomatic effect of putting the Low Countries back to balanced after the Fall of France to be most interesting and fully support it.  Also, as for the Trade agreement, yes it should be possible, but as the German, I would never do it, since TLC would then be leaning Axis and an Allied landing there would (of course) be easy and not carry such a big diplomatic penalty among neutrals world wide.  I also whole-heartedly agree with removal of the event that makes for the Activation of TLC after the Fall of France, it looks silly and serves no purpose (except to give the Germans a free grab of a neutral without a WR bump.)  I am quite a bit less sure about an Albanian garrison requirement but find the concept extremely interesting.

ORIGINAL: christian brown

Also, as for the Trade agreement, yes it should be possible, but as the German, I would never do it, since TLC would then be leaning Axis and an Allied landing there would (of course) be easy and not carry such a big diplomatic penalty among neutrals world wide.

Oups didn't think of that [:(]

In fact about the Albanian garrison would be more to reflect the need for Italy to put a resistance against the Greeks strong enough to keep the status quo. No garrison and they would loose Albania. I agree it's a bit strange so I still think making the Greek Border War event a plain and simple War Declaration would be more close to the historical situation but then the British could reinforce it easily which they didn't but for Crete.

I like the new system in AWD, the whole feeling is better than WAW. Just I think the Political system could be a bit more exploited to get the feeling of a true "what-if" game.

FYI:
The developers have heard your cry Polonthi.  We can expect to see "the Low Countries joins the Western Allies" event modified not to happen after the creation of Vichy.  The timeline is not clear at this point, just be patient.

I am actually considering making the political event with TLC joining the WA require W. France to be controlled by the WA: That way a still neutral TLC could join the war either before the fall of France or after D-Day. I think that would make more sense than only allowing it prior to the fall of France. Not that it would mean much in practical terms as Japan is very likely to want to attack the Dutch East Indies long before D-Day - but still.

That sounds great, even if it (no Japanese attack on the DEI) almost never happens, it is surely the best logical approach to it.

Oups I did it again as not thinking TLC would enter the war when Japan will attack the Dutch East Indies.

All in all it seems that TLC will be occupied anyway [:(]

At least the idea W. France to be controlled by the WA is good enough in 1940 but for D-Day I think witht he Japan case they will be in the war already.

If Japan attacks the Allies can the Dutch East Indies stays frozen? or do they unfreeze as well?

ORIGINAL: Polonthi

If Japan attacks the Allies can the Dutch East Indies stays frozen? or do they unfreeze as well?

DEI unfreezes as of now. I agree that the TLC event is a bit weird right now, but maybe we shouldn't try to change too much there either. [;)]

The frozen part isnt the relevant part though. The DEI and TLC remain neutral if Japan attacks the WA or the WA attacks Japan. Not the most likely scenario but possible still.