Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:10 am**

Okay, here's an odd one...

So I'm playing out my USFL League. Standard US Field & Rule set with two point conversions and 10 Minute Quarters, and I'm looking over some stats after a couple of simmed games were completed and something struck me as funny:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:11 am**

So I took a look at the Offensive stats and found this:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:12 am**

So not only did the guy throw one pass for longer than the length of the field, but somehow that one pass was worth three touchdowns.

Then while looking through another game's stats I found this:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:14 am**

So a guy doesn't complete the only pass he throws, which apparently was an attempt of 26 yards, but he gets credit for a touchdown?

Very interesting.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:25 am**

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

So not only did the guy throw one pass for longer than the length of the field, but somehow that one pass was worth three touchdowns.

He's just that good [:D]

Sorry Brock, had to let that one out. Guess stats still need to be worked out.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:03 am**

That looks like a bug to me.  Either that, or Diebold is posting his stats.
 
By the way, I would rather see YPA (yards per attempt) rather than YPC (yards per completion) for average gain.

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:52 am**

Marauders,

I remember a magazine article (either Sport or Inside Sport) about 15 years ago, when the NFL developed and started using it's QB rating system, that said the whole formula was flawed. Like a big part of the rating system is completion percentage; they posed that 'why should a completed pass that gains zero yards be the same value as a pass that gains sixty?' Another Factor of the rating system is Times Sacked. When a quarterback takes a sack, 99 times out of a 100 it's more a product of the failure of the offensive line or the prowess of the defensive scheme than the fault of the Quarterback. So why should the QB be penalized for it?

After having a bunch of analysts go through and crunch all the data (and pages of examples supporting their findings), they came up with (what they said was) the best indicator of a quarterback's efficiency:

(Total Yards minus 50 yards per Interception) divided by Passes Attempted

The rationale for subtracting 50 yards per interception was that, at the time, the average return on an intercepted pass was 50 yards (If I recall right, it was 50.2, but they rounded down).

They stated that this gave a much better guage of what a QB was like than doing what the NFL was doing. They stacked their formula up against the NFL rating system, and while crap quarterbacks might have had a decent NFL rating, they faired poorly with this system and good quarterbacks that got jobbed with the NFL system did much better with this.

Maybe this might be something to incorporate into Maximum Football

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:57 am**

dreamtheatervt,

Not only was it that good, but according to the boxscore, it was so good, they spread the scoring of that
three-for-one touchdown out through three different quarters.

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:14 am**

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

Marauders,

I remember a magazine article (either Sport or Inside Sport) about 15 years ago, when the NFL developed and started using it's QB rating system, that said the whole formula was flawed. Like a big part of the rating system is completion percentage; they posed that 'why should a completed pass that gains zero yards be the same value as a pass that gains sixty?' Another Factor of the rating system is Times Sacked. When a quarterback takes a sack, 99 times out of a 100 it's more a product of the failure of the offensive line or the prowess of the defensive scheme than the fault of the Quarterback. So why should the QB be penalized for it?

After having a bunch of analysts go through and crunch all the data (and pages of examples supporting their findings), they came up with (what they said was) the best indicator of a quarterback's efficiency:

(Total Yards minus 50 yards per Interception) divided by Passes Attempted

The rationale for subtracting 50 yards per interception was that, at the time, the average return on an intercepted pass was 50 yards (If I recall right, it was 50.2, but they rounded down).

They stated that this gave a much better guage of what a QB was like than doing what the NFL was doing. They stacked their formula up against the NFL rating system, and while crap quarterbacks might have had a decent NFL rating, they faired poorly with this system and good quarterbacks that got jobbed with the NFL system did much better with this.

Maybe this might be something to incorporate into Maximum Football

[font="Courier New"]That is too simple, for my tastes.

Does not MF allow each position to have at least its own formula (can be deleted and created a new by human players) to determine the best players?[/font]

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:50 am**

A human owner can set his draft for 2 particular player skills. For instance, he can draft a TE that has stength and blocking skills, or speed and blocking skills, or speed and catching skills, etc. Each tight end probably has all those skills and more but you can set your draft preferences by round and the computer or you can choose from a list of TEs that fit the profile you want.

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:17 am**

Brockleigh, something is really messed up with the build because the Memphis receiver does not have the touchdowns either, and the reception yardage does not match the completion yardage.
 
On the side note, sacks are not part of the QB Rating.  It includes completion percentage, yardage per attempt, touchdown percentage, and interception percentage.
 
 
 
 

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:19 pm**

[font="Courier New"]BigSmooth,

I think your reply is addressed to me; I was meaning for The All-Pro game[/font]

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:44 pm**

This is NOT a bug. You may customize stats keeping. Each league has its own method????

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:29 pm**

The stats can be taken from the save file and looked at, but the game shows certain stats.
 
The display file can be changed, but it isn't something that is considered a supported feature at this time.

Posted: **Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:22 pm**

[font="courier new"]Even though sacks are in fact caused by QB in a smaller percentage of the time, than the caused by OL, I think yardage per sack should be involved. A QB that moves deeper and far away from the pocket (with great DB coverage) when OL broke down deserves the subtraction of points. They should think throw away first; few great plays do happen, but they are still few. I do not think running out of sacks should ever been counted nor will it ever be possible.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]The yardage per pass competition* should be affected by the affected** by if up by 21 or more points, at the time yardage per competition is added. **-How affected, I have no idea how to work it.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]*-Competition is correct because to many other elements (play call, OL, WRs and etc) affect a QB's good pass being catch.[/font]

Posted: **Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:27 pm**

In Beta 1.3.120, in the Canadian game, a sack is being recorded as an attempted pass and completed pass for the amount of the loss.  For instance, if the QB gets sacked for a loss of three yards on the first play of the game, his stats say 1-1, -3 yds.  Nothing shows up in the receiving category of the game.

Posted: **Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:43 pm**

I have noticed the same thing in the simmed games.This is just one example:

BOLT WAVE

1st Downs 2 11
Rushing 6 97
Passing 217 411
Net Yards 223 508
Penalties 1/05 2/15
Total Plays 43 47

Rushing
Att/Yds 20/06 23/97
Avg Gain 0.3 4.2
Fumbles/Lost 00/00 00/00

Passing
Comp/Att/INT 3/11/0 8/19/1
Yards 217 411
Avg Gain 72.3 51.4
Sacks Against 3 4

Kicking
Punts 8/331 2/85
Field Goals 0 of 0 0 of 0

Time Of Pos 29:02 30:58

Individual

Passing:
BOLT -- CORBITT 3-11, 217 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs.
WAVE -- MASSY 8-19, 411 yds, 6 TDs, 1 INTs.

Receiving:
BOLT -- HAIL 1-53 0 TDs, NEBERGALL 2-164 2 TDs,
WAVE -- GEHRON 3-198 4 TDs, ROHDE 2-71 1 TDs,
HOFFSTOT 3-142 1 TDs,

Rushing:
BOLT -- CORBITT 4-3 0 TDs, WAITHE 1--2 0 TDs,
DEANG 15-5 0 TDs,
WAVE -- MASSY 2-11 0 TDs, HEAFEY 21-86 1 TDs,

On average though i'm seeing only 2 or 4 completions a game but all,or almost all.are for touchdowns.I've seen the 1 completion for 3 Td's also mentioned.The results are the same for the passing game in both the college level and proffesional leagues i created.One thing i noticed though is that when watching the simmed games all of the plays are either for a big gain or a loss.With the running game this seems to average out even though every run is either a 9-12 yd gain or a loss.There is variation though from the 5yd runner above to 100yd games and everything inbetween for a player.This is a big improvement over the running game from before.With the passing game its either a 40+yd completion or a sack of 9 yds on average.

Posted: **Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:09 pm**

same thing here.   3 completions, 4 TDs for simulated games.  weird.

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:11 pm**

Here is another stat bug, I had this problem when i first bought the game, but it seemed to have been fixed in the 1,3.84 build, nut now seems to have returned with the 1.3.120
build,it shows "longest TD" as being incorrect.

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:17 pm**

The sim engine is going to be replaced by an fbpro style sim engine where it actually plays out the game without the graphics.

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