Matrix Games Forums

Everyone has noticed that many IJNAF groups (Kate and Val) stay in Tokyo and fill up space. Many people didn't understand (Myself included) why these groups were sent there and remain there. Reading through the Pwhint11 file I may have found the answer. Here's a direct exerpt...

b. If under 'computer control', the artificial intelligence (AI) may 'temporarily disband' badly depleted air groups. These groups will show up as reinforcements on the next turn at San Francisco/Tokyo/Calcutta. If you have no use for these groups you can disband them. Their aircraft will go into the pool and the group will return as a reinforcement in six months.

What the problem is, is that there are too many of these groups and not enough planes to fit them all out, so, the computer looks at them and sees badly depleted groups (as they don't receive replacements as the pool isn't large enough) and dispands them. They then reappear in Tokyo the next turn. This looks like a continuous circle, as, attrition results in the front line units (the few Kate and Val units that started off with numbers) using up virtually all of the replacements and these units at Tokyo can never fill out.

One solution would be to lower the experience of these units and increase the starting number of planes.

Another solution would be to increase the aircraft pool, or construction rate.

The first of these options appears to be more gameplay balanced.

Any suggestions?

Jeremy,

In the later part of the war, this phenomena that you have explained does in fact result. The numerous air groups reinforcements receive their initial 4 A/C; and due to heavy losses being suffered by front line groups; the reinforcement groups never come up to strength. Therefore, these units accumulate in Tokyo, and compound the problem because other groups present in the base are prevented from coming up to strength. It appears that the AI will not allow air groups to receive A/C if there are more groups in the base than the current capacity.

However, in the early war periods, the pools for Kates and Val are practically brimming with A/C. The IJN carriers are not launching attacks every week, resulting in the Kate and Val pools growing. I can't recall ever seeing Kate and Val equipped groups in the front lines in the full war scenario. If someone has seen this in the current full war scenario, let me know.

A possible solution would be to code that all new groups appearing in Tokyo immediately transfer to another Japanese base with unused capacity. This would allow all groups that had A/C in the pools to begin equipping. Another problem is the IJA transport A/C are not being transferred out of Tokyo by the AI. These groups DO come up to strength, but for some reason rarely leave Tokyo. I can remember playing the old version and watching every island in range of Tokyo receiving air supply, by every group stationed in Tokyo. With the resource pool underflow bug being eliminated, this problem shouldn't occur, let's hope.

Another solution would be to change the OB to have the groups up to strength, NOT based in Tokyo. For the reinforcement groups that appear later in the war, the AI will almost have to be hard coded to transfer the groups out of Tokyo before coming up to strength.

The experience levels for these groups shouldn't be touched. These groups should be a lethal albeit fragile weapon. If an Allied TF advances on a base without air cover early in the war, the TF will get a bloody nose. However, if these groups are exposed to Allied fighters without escorts too often, then their experience levels will plummet.

In a subject related to disbanded groups... I experienced the loss of an USAAF FG, USAAF BG, and RAAF FG when the Japanese took Batavia in or about 5/42. This wasn't the problem; about 4-8 weeks after the loss, the groups reappeared in their respective reinforcement locations. In the previous version, both disbanded groups and overrun groups reappeared 6 months after the event. The reason I say 4-8 weeks after is that I wasn't expecting them, so I was a bit astonished to find them there.

You mentioned in another string that "code" issues couldn't be addressed, since the team is working on WitP. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that if all of these minor bugs could be ironed out, and some of the operations research issues such as the one I brought up regarding submarines could be corrected with some minor code changes; that the typical viewer to this forum would be willing to PAY for the final patch to PacWar. I would be willing to fork out $50 for a polished version of the current PacWar. I appreciate a high fidelity simulation; and am willing to show that appreciation with dollars. Off the subject, but something to ponder.

In response to your post about paying for a finished Pacwar, there's a reason it's free. Matrix CAN'T charge for it without being sued to death by Mattel. Matrix can ONLY release "free patches" for Steel Panthers, Wir and PacWar. The reason the coders are busy with WiTP is that that's the first game that will start making money, and it's the first one they can sell for money, now that Talonsoft killed WON.

The Matrix Team could spend another 6 months on the Pacific War Patch and still have a lot of possible things to do. The point of the PacWar Patch was to have something out there to tide everyone over until the War in the Pacific game is completed.

The original Pacific War was more than playable. The Pacific War Patch served only to enhance the game, which made this playable game even more playable. It may not be perfect, as that is what they are going for in WitP

I myself would like to see this original up to the best possible maximum it could be. But, when WitP is released, it will make Pacific War TOTALLY obsolete, unless you only posess a computer from the early 1990's. I would much rather have the WitP release sooner by 6+ months and the PacWar Patch not dealing with every possible fix than the PacWar Patch being 'perfect' and WitP being delayed 6+ months.

I am going to see if any one of my possible solutions actually gets the AI to keep the Airgroups out of Tokyo. Possibly we can solve this without having to mess with the code.

Jeremy

all AI problems are solved by playing against a human!!!! Who here does not win every game with ethier side against AI? I just captured Pearl in April 42 as Japan. Frank Jack lost his life and 3 CV's at Midway (but sank my beloved Akagi)Adm Scott lost 3 BB's and a ton of other ships at Johnson Island (japan 35000pts allies 30000) and as US have captured Truk and all of New Guenia, Solomans, New Britain, Borneo in Sept 43 IJN has lost 15CV's 6BB 15CA 17CL 85dd 200+AP 300+mcs (japan 44000pts allies 75000) The AI gets boring after a while, why does it leave 200+ merchants in air range? why put a leader all by himself some where? I have captured 4 or 5 this game without units?.

I want a human any side to play with!!!

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[This message has been edited by Mogami (edited October 02, 2000).]

Adding more enhancements to PACWAR would be like the Japanese adding bits and pieces to their old design warplanes to keep it up to standard!

WITP will be a TOTALLY new design meaning it will take advantange of todays PC power. PACWAR has already stretched the limits to it's 640k.

However, I do agree that bugs in PACWAR should be continually repaired.

Hey Mogami,
A suggestion for ya- try playing on computer control (you only control India as US/ Japan only controls Marianas) makes it real difficult to win when you dont change computers decisions on your side-game goes faster too! i'm about %55 wins (even mode) when I dont cheat other AI commanders orders...more lifelike, though the computer AI does some awfully stupid things I have to overcome - not that that did'nt happen in real life!
Jim

The air losses in PACWAR are very accurate compared to the real war. The Japanese Airforce were losing on average 2000 planes a month in 1944. However in PACWAR the factory production of aircraft is a lot less than the real war. Perhaps aircraft production should be boosted. I've also noticed in the factory section of the OBC there are still gaps where the armor industry used to be placed. Perhaps in the new release of the OBC, you could fill these gaps with Japanese aircraft factories??