Matrix Games Forums

Ok, just got the game, but I must say it is one of the most frustrating games I have ever seen to try and learn. The 275 page pdf manual seems to cover everything except - how to play it. It's a detailed manual on 'what everything does' but there is no methodology to learn the game. What exactly do you do??? Move and fight, great, I'm having trouble even identifying what is on the board. Richmond seems to have a stack of generals with no troops and as for the strategic icons on the map I have no idea what they mean.

Please don't say "read the manual". That is exactly my point there is no section on "learning the game" - only detailed sections on what each menu is supposed to do NOT how to play it.

These kind of games are NEVER going to do well unless you can get people to play them. This is the most disappointing opening to a much anticipated game that I have ever experienced. With "FOR LIBERTY" I at least could get playing within the first 10 minutes but this thing I am completely lost in.

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

ORIGINAL: XLegion

Ok, just got the game, but I must say it is one of the most frustrating games I have ever seen to try and learn. The 275 page pdf manual seems to cover everything except - how to play it. It's a detailed manual on 'what everything does' but there is no methodology to learn the game. What exactly do you do??? Move and fight, great, I'm having trouble even identifying what is on the board. Richmond seems to have a stack of generals with no troops and as for the strategic icons on the map I have no idea what they mean.

Please don't say "read the manual". That is exactly my point there is no section on "learning the game" - only detailed sections on what each menu is supposed to do NOT how to play it.

These kind of games are NEVER going to do well unless you can get people to play them. This is the most disappointing opening to a much anticipated game that I have ever experienced. With "FOR LIBERTY" I at least could get playing within the first 10 minutes but this thing I am completely lost in.

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

I also ran into this problem. Following the Gil and J Chastain AAR's is a great way to learn to play the game as they show you step by step what they do and why. Follow similiar procedures and then try new things....

Try reading the ongoing AAR between Gil R and jchastain. It has a lot of good ideas on how to get started and what to do each turn.

ORIGINAL: XLegion

Ok, just got the game, but I must say it is one of the most frustrating games I have ever seen to try and learn. The 275 page pdf manual seems to cover everything except - how to play it. It's a detailed manual on 'what everything does' but there is no methodology to learn the game. What exactly do you do??? Move and fight, great, I'm having trouble even identifying what is on the board. Richmond seems to have a stack of generals with no troops and as for the strategic icons on the map I have no idea what they mean.

Please don't say "read the manual". That is exactly my point there is no section on "learning the game" - only detailed sections on what each menu is supposed to do NOT how to play it.

These kind of games are NEVER going to do well unless you can get people to play them. This is the most disappointing opening to a much anticipated game that I have ever experienced. With "FOR LIBERTY" I at least could get playing within the first 10 minutes but this thing I am completely lost in.

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

I feel exactly the same way. I know there's a great game in here, but I just can't figure out how to find it. Even following the AAR's don't do a lot of good.

The game is a bit daunting at first. What I found most helpful is to read the two excellent AARs by the Gil R and jchastain, which have their own threads above. They do an excellent job of walking through the various moves and steps to consider. I had a much better grasp of the game after reading those.

There also is a flash tutorial in the FOF file but I've not looked at it.

ORIGINAL: XLegion

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

I really can't see the problem. Start with the basic rules, just play a couple of games (the flash tutorial tells you all you need to know for that) and build up by checking the boxes . What you need to do is pretty obvious both on the military side and economic side; FoF is a Civil War based game but the basic principles regarding matters both military and economic are just the same as in most other turn based strategy games. All you need to know is how to actually do it using the interface - which is in the manual.

There is a campaign that starts five months earlier if you prefer.

However, please, XLegion, feel free to continue reading here looking for advice.  There are enough experienced players, I would say, to help you along.  For starters, you might just want to try doing the things that the flash tutorial presents--put an army together, make an attack, etc.  See what the effects are--in terms of Victory Points, for example.  Then, try it again.  Try building a building or unit in a large city.  You may need to lose a few games in order to get the hang of it.  We would also like to provide more tutorial information in future products, so feedback information about the learning curve is very helpful to us, thanks.

plus, remember, if you have questions, ask, the testers will be around as will some of the designers,and the other players, someone should be able to get you a answer to what you need to know

ORIGINAL: Hertston
Start with the basic rules, just play a couple of games (the flash tutorial tells you all you need to know for that) and build up by checking the boxes .

Thanks Herston. I'm following your advice and just played a very stable game at the pure basic ruleset for about 10-15 turns. I'll also take Elmo's and others' re looking at an AAR... then I'll hit the rulebook.

Even at Tut level, Basic rules, the USA AI went to outflank me through Kentucky and Tenessee. Then attacked me at Virginia before I managed to hold the line. The USA morale effort doesn't take losses well!

I started with the Basic game on an easier level (as the Union).  I spent quite a bit of time learning how to attach units and build up my Corps and Army.  I really can't get into pdf manuals too well, so I had mine printed out today.  That really helped a lot.  I take breaks from playing and read parts of the manual.  Many things became clear to me this way. 
 
In the basic game, you can't fight detailed battles, so don't worry about this aspect.  Next, I'm off to an advanced game and will learn the tactical rules and procedures. 
 
Hang with it. 

just start a game lol. I began reading the manual after my first game.

ORIGINAL: ElGuapo

ORIGINAL: XLegion

Ok, just got the game, but I must say it is one of the most frustrating games I have ever seen to try and learn. The 275 page pdf manual seems to cover everything except - how to play it. It's a detailed manual on 'what everything does' but there is no methodology to learn the game. What exactly do you do??? Move and fight, great, I'm having trouble even identifying what is on the board. Richmond seems to have a stack of generals with no troops and as for the strategic icons on the map I have no idea what they mean.

Please don't say "read the manual". That is exactly my point there is no section on "learning the game" - only detailed sections on what each menu is supposed to do NOT how to play it.

These kind of games are NEVER going to do well unless you can get people to play them. This is the most disappointing opening to a much anticipated game that I have ever experienced. With "FOR LIBERTY" I at least could get playing within the first 10 minutes but this thing I am completely lost in.

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

I feel exactly the same way. I know there's a great game in here, but I just can't figure out how to find it. Even following the AAR's don't do a lot of good.

START by reading the entire manual once. Then walk through the "tutorial" to find out where they've "hidden" the controls and switches. Then just start playing the game. You'll find you "remember" quite a lot you didn't realize you had learned, and you can look up the rest as you go along. Expect to "re-start" a number of times. The game auto saves, so when you find you've done something wrong, go back a couple of sves and try again. You fell down a lot when you were learning to walk---you will screw up a lot when learning to play. Most of all, don't get in too big a hurry, especially to take the offensive. You have to prepare your troops first.

And if you are playing the Union, forget everything you've read and expect to have to do it with one hand tied behind your back. Seems the "beta testors" were big Rebel Fans who thought the South needed a more "level playing field" to make the game "fun". They got it...., so you are going to have a real struggle on your hands as the Union as well as the Confederacy. Take your time..., the game rewards thought and planning.

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

And if you are playing the Union, forget everything you've read and expect to have to do it with one hand tied behind your back. Seems the "beta testors" were big Rebel Fans who thought the South needed a more "level playing field" to make the game "fun". They got it...., so you are going to have a real struggle on your hands as the Union as well as the Confederacy.

Rightly so, IMHO. As I've said elsewhere FoF is a strategy game based on the ACW, not an attempt to simulate that war in WitP fashion. It needs something resembling a level playing field (even only as an options), especially regarding PBEM, to provide any reason to play it.

That said, I'm not so sure the favouritism is really that large. Union victory was nowhere near as inevitable on the "overwhelming manpower and resources" front as many post-war Southerners liked to believe.

ORIGINAL: Hertston

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

And if you are playing the Union, forget everything you've read and expect to have to do it with one hand tied behind your back. Seems the "beta testors" were big Rebel Fans who thought the South needed a more "level playing field" to make the game "fun". They got it...., so you are going to have a real struggle on your hands as the Union as well as the Confederacy.

Rightly so, IMHO. As I've said elsewhere FoF is a strategy game based on the ACW, not an attempt to simulate that war in WitP fashion. It needs something resembling a level playing field (even only as an options), especially regarding PBEM, to provide any reason to play it. Maybe so..., but it's a "shock" for people who are expecting a game based on the American Civil War to find the sides so "even", and a lot of mental re-adjustment is needed to strategies.

That said, I'm not so sure the favouritism is really that large. Union victory was nowhere near as inevitable on the "overwhelming manpower and resources" front as many post-war Southerners liked to believe. I'd have to strongly dissagree here. The North's Economic and Manpower advantages were so overwhelming that even with the strain of fighting an offensive war the economy continued to grow and Western Expansion never ceased. The South had to win the "Morale War", they simply didn't have the assets to win a "Physical War" as long as the North was willing to continue the fight. In the game they are much better off.

ORIGINAL: [name deleted]

...

With FOF, I keep clicking places I expect to be able to do something and about the only thing I ever find is "Do you want to change this unit's name?" ...

Regarding this one point: From my experience historical units will have a brief history pop up if you click on their name. Non-historical units give you the option to change their name.

Yes...you need to follow the AARs...they explain what they're doing and, more importantly, WHY they are doing it.

Also doing the Tutorial on Basic settings. I am fumbling around in it, but getting there nd things are making sense. I am now creating buildings to maxmise a resource, creating containers and artillery, cavalry, troops and getting ready to take on the South!

From a longtime veteran of the wargaming scene, let me say welcome to you newbies. Here are my tips...

First of all, DON'T read the whole manual. There's a Basic game, only read that far on your first look at the manual.

Second, don't wait till you read the manual to play around with the game. Fire it up and click around the interface. Sure, you won't know what a lot of things are, but you'll see them and it will help you when you do read the manual. You can't break the game, so click a few buttons, and remember, always right click just to see if there's something there as well.

Next, before you play and even before you put in time on the manual, run the Flash tutorial! It explains a lot of the interface. And it gives a bit of an overview of what gameplay looks like.

Read the AARs, but don't study them. Just get a feel of what happens each turn.

Finally, remember this isn't what we called in the old days a "beer and pretzel" game. You are going to have to study the manual and the game itself if you are going to be any good at it. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a large part of the enjoyment of any good wargame for a lot of us. We didn't just hop into "Campaign For North Africa" or "Advanced Squad Leader" and start playing, but I enjoyed those games and played them a lot longer than many of the simple ones. Get a container of your favorite fluid, get comfortable in your best recliner, and start reading that manual [:)]

"With FOF, I keep clicking places I expect to be able to do something and about the only thing I ever find is "Do you want to change this unit's name?" Even clicking on the intended object rather than something near it is difficult. I have found virtually nothing -- moving units, building, fortification, placing leaders, etc. -- to be simple and intuitive. Often you have to take an extra step just to leave an activated unit so as not to actually move it or to freeze the map. Having now spent the greater part of three days on this game, I still cannot quite "play it." I have found it extremely frustrating, and was more than once tempted to throw it away."


Basically I agree..., if you are looking for "User Friendly" you are going to look long and hard unless all you want to do is change a lot of Brigade names. It all seems to be in there SOMEPLACE..., but you will have to get use to where it is and how to "get there from here". I don't think it's a "throwaway"..., but it would really be nice if game designers could reach some agreement on how to build an interface. It's almost getting to the point that by the time you've learned HOW to play a game you're heartilly sick of looking at it and can't enjoy PLAYING it....

Where is this "Flash Tutorial" that everyone is speaking about. All I see is the "July" scenario and the "Full Campaign Game" which seems to start in November of 1861.

XLegion - I think you get to the flash tutorial when going via start=> all programs => forge of freedom => documentation. Still, I don't know for sure, as I did not look at it...

My approach seems to be somewhat different from what the majority of people uses. I decided not to go for a basic game, but pretty much to choose all the options that sound interesting... then I start trying to play (and figure out that it is REALLY easy to change unit names... LOL !!!), as I really really really do not feel positive about reading detailed long manuals.

Usually, while stumbling along I hit one or more problems (and may accidentally solve one or two as well). As soon as I can define the problem clearly, I

a) open the manual and try to search the likely words
b) search the forums for this type of information.

I do appreciate the many nice AARs -thanks everyone [&o]- and like reading them at length, but not when I am hunting a piece of information to be able to play myself...

That way, I think I even figured out at least part of how to assign a General [:)]... not sure completely yet, will know after my next game-fragment...

If everything else fails, I will ask in the Forums. In the worst case, people will give me a link to where the same question has been asked previously [8|].

Detailed combat is something I might ask a couple of question about at some point of time - and am convinced Hard Sarge is going to provide the answers...

Just my 2cts...

Hartwig