Matrix Games Forums

Information from Answers.com
Nakajima G10N
The Nakajima G10N Fugaku (Japanese: 富岳 or 富嶽, "Mount Fuji"), was a planned Japanese ultra-long range heavy bomber plane designed during World War II.

The Fugaku had its origins in "Project Z", a 1942 specification for an intercontinental bomber which could take off from the Japanese-occupied Kuril Islands, bomb the continental United States, then continue onward to land in German-occupied France. Once there, it would be refitted and make another return sortie.

Project Z called for three variations on the airframe: 4,000 bombers, 5,000 transports (capable of carrying 600 troops), and 2,000 strafing attack aircraft, which would carry 400 downward-firing machine guns in the fuselage, for intense ground attacks at the rate of 6,400 rounds per second.

While the project was conceived by Nakajima head Chikuhei Nakajima, Kawanishi and Mitsubishi also made proposals for the Fugaku. The Nakajima design had straight wings and contra-rotating four-blade propellers; the Kawanishi design had elliptical wings and single four-blade propellers. To save weight, some of the landing gear was to be jettisoned after takeoff (being unnecessary on landing with an empty bomb load). Both designs used six engines.

Development started in 1943, with a design and manufacturing facility built in Mitaka, Tokyo. While Nakajima's 4-row 36-cylinder Ha-54 engine was abandoned as too complex, Mitsubishi successfully built the 2-row 22-cylinder Ha-50 engine for the Kawanishi design, testing three units in May 1944. An example of this engine was unearthed in 1979 during expansion of Haneda Airport and is on display at the Narita Aerospace Museum.

Project Z was cancelled in July 1944 and the Fugaku was never built.





Specifications (projected)
This aircraft article has not been updated to WikiProject Aircraft's current standards. Please see this page for more details.

General characteristics
Length: 46 m
Wingspan: 63 m
Height: 8.80 m
Wing area: 330.00 m²
Crew: 6 or more
Powerplant: six Nakajima Ha-54 4-row 36-cylinder air-cooled radials, 5000 hp (373 kW)
Empty weight: 42,000 kg
Loaded weight: 122,000 kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 780 km/h at 10,000 m
Maximum altitiude: 15,000 m
Range: 19,400 km

Armament
Armament: 4 × 20 mm cannon, 20,000 kg of bombs

References
Ogawa, Toshihiko (1993). Nihon Kōkūki Daizukan, 1910-1945, Tokyo: Kokushokankōkai
Idei, Tadaaki (1985). 'Hikōki Mechanism Zukan', Tokyo: Guranpuri Shuppan

we can also find some Japanese X-planes from:
 
http://www.j-aircraft.org/xplanes/index.html

Pure insanity...[8|]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pure insanity...[8|]

but funny[8D]

Try tragic... But that's the way the Axis went; they all suffered from Huge-Must-Equal-Better-Syndrome...

Wonder where they thought they were going to get the 66 TONS of AvGas for one of these critters to take off..., and where the Germans were going to find another 66 tons to fly it back with?  11,000 of these "White Elephants"?  Sounds like for once there was an outbreak of common sense in Japan.

Not to mention the 800,000 machineguns they wanted to put in the strafer variants... Using a 100+ ton aircraft to strafe...

That happens from time to time. We just have to remember the employment doutrine of the first IFV´s - infantry fighting vehicles in 1960's-70's. All soldiers using firing  ports in vehicle and only getting out 100m from objective...even in 80's the M3 Bradley came with firing ports(they are now covered by armor).

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Try tragic... But that's the way the Axis went; they all suffered from Huge-Must-Equal-Better-Syndrome...

I take a different view. We had an almost identical design in the same period - called the B-36 - and we actually built it. It is almost identical in its original form - except for using pusher propellers vice tractor. It turned out to be anything but impractical - once we decided to build airfields big enough - which we use to this day for the B-52.
The Germans had a big problem with airfields for their four engine and six engine bombers (see Luftwaffe Over America). But they could have built them! I do not think the concept of a Super Heavy Bomber or Ultra Long Range Recon plane (both USAAF official terms) was tragic or crazy.

What was close to insane was projecting thousands of such machines. Germany planned - and never was able to get materials for - a mere 60 Me-264s - one of only two of these projects to get very far. [The other one was the Ju-290/390 series - some of which are unaccounted for - and for which JAAF bought a production licence].

Another bit of related material:

The FIRST Japanese atomic research project was aimed at propulsion for such a plane!
A similar German atomic research project had the same code designation (NZ).
BOTH the USA and USSR invested in similar work! [The USAF spent about 2 billions before the atomic bomber was cancelled about 1958. By then they had built and run 5000 hp engines - the exact size of the original Ki-144 proposal -
on the ground and also had flown an atomic reactor in a B-36].

There were similar (in concept and in expense) projects for a nuclear powered cruise missile, a nuclear powered ballistic missile, and even an interplanetary cruiser powered by atom bombs (See Project Orion, written by the son of Freman Dyson, the lead physicist).

The Axis were not the only ones attracted to gigantic, expensive and even outlandish technical concepts.

ORIGINAL: Dili

That happens from time to time. We just have to remember the employment doutrine of the first IFV´s - infantry fighting vehicles in 1960's-70's. All soldiers using firing ports in vehicle and only getting out 100m from objective...even in 80's the M3 Bradley came with firing ports(they are now covered by armor).

What this has to do with mounting 400 machineguns in a six-engined, 122-ton aircraft and intending to use them for strafing escapes me...

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Not to mention the 800,000 machineguns they wanted to put in the strafer variants... Using a 100+ ton aircraft to strafe...

I think the idea was to use it more like a C-47 gunship..., an oversized "Puff the Magic Dragon" as it were. Though with no chance of air superiority the life expectancy of one of these planes would have been extremely short.

Aside from the fact that this would entail maneuvering an aircraft that was twice as heavy as a B-29, with 60 feet greater wingspan and 45 feet longer fuselage at a low level, this was a great idea...

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Try tragic... But that's the way the Axis went; they all suffered from Huge-Must-Equal-Better-Syndrome...

I take a different view. We had an almost identical design in the same period - called the B-36 - and we actually built it. It is almost identical in its original form - except for using pusher propellers vice tractor. It turned out to be anything but impractical - once we decided to build airfields big enough - which we use to this day for the B-52.
The Germans had a big problem with airfields for their four engine and six engine bombers (see Luftwaffe Over America). But they could have built them! I do not think the concept of a Super Heavy Bomber or Ultra Long Range Recon plane (both USAAF official terms) was tragic or crazy.

What was close to insane was projecting thousands of such machines. Germany planned - and never was able to get materials for - a mere 60 Me-264s - one of only two of these projects to get very far. [The other one was the Ju-290/390 series - some of which are unaccounted for - and for which JAAF bought a production licence].

Another bit of related material:

The FIRST Japanese atomic research project was aimed at propulsion for such a plane!
A similar German atomic research project had the same code designation (NZ).
BOTH the USA and USSR invested in similar work! [The USAF spent about 2 billions before the atomic bomber was cancelled about 1958. By then they had built and run 5000 hp engines - the exact size of the original Ki-144 proposal -
on the ground and also had flown an atomic reactor in a B-36].

There were similar (in concept and in expense) projects for a nuclear powered cruise missile, a nuclear powered ballistic missile, and even an interplanetary cruiser powered by atom bombs (See Project Orion, written by the son of Freman Dyson, the lead physicist).

The Axis were not the only ones attracted to gigantic, expensive and even outlandish technical concepts.

Congratulations on another irrelevant post.

"The other one was the Ju-290/390 series - some of which are unaccounted for - and for which JAAF bought a production licence" The Ju 290 has quite the secret (and little known) history. Including being involved with many black ops for the Germans. Including one crash landing at a Spanish airfield at the end of the war overburdened with cryto and secret documents. With its immense capacity it is hard to imagine one being so overburdened. Also besides licensing rights the Japanese bought three examples of them of which they were not able to be delivered. Even with the great range of the Ju 290, the Germans were driven out of the the available airfields for such an operation to be conducted.

Terminus. Contratulations on another groundless and pointless insult. That you do not see how a nearly identical US aircraft prooves the concept was not silly makes you at least consistent - with yourself. That you do not see how the idea of super heavy bombers using the same airframes - Japanese and American - with atomic power - is not evidence the topic is not related.

ORIGINAL: Mifune

"The other one was the Ju-290/390 series - some of which are unaccounted for - and for which JAAF bought a production licence" The Ju 290 has quite the secret (and little known) history. Including being involved with many black ops for the Germans. Including one crash landing at a Spanish airfield at the end of the war overburdened with cryto and secret documents. With its immense capacity it is hard to imagine one being so overburdened. Also besides licensing rights the Japanese bought three examples of them of which they were not able to be delivered. Even with the great range of the Ju 290, the Germans were driven out of the the available airfields for such an operation to be conducted.

That particular aircraft eventually was purchased by Spain and served in the Spanish Air Force for a long time.
A more interesting plane is the 390 that seems to have flown to the Far East - possibly with Gen Kammler (SS)
on board.

ORIGINAL: el cid again



There were similar (in concept and in expense) projects for a nuclear powered cruise missile, a nuclear powered ballistic missile, and even an interplanetary cruiser powered by atom bombs (See Project Orion, written by the son of Freman Dyson, the lead physicist).

The Axis were not the only ones attracted to gigantic, expensive and even outlandish technical concepts.

Here are the schematics....when will we see it in RHS?

Looks good but I think there's definitely space for more AAA. [8D]


Nemo121 ....Shipboard FlAK Fanboy!

I was aware of the G10N project - but it could not have produced a plane (on half power 2500 hp engines) before about 1948 - nor a full power version (which was to use engines which were in effect coupled on each shaft)
before about 1950.

Even the Ki-91 - with 4 engines - is a bit late for the war - but it made RHS so you can see that for yourself. [At least it made the 5 more historical mods - it was dropped by EOS in favor of a more aggressive bomber program]
We don't do planes that cannot produce early enough in 1945 to have some impact on the war - and we much prefer planes in earlier years to excessive devotion to 1945 models.

Now if we did a mod starting mid war - that might be different. We could run it out to 1946 - or even later.

Still - I barely believe in 4 engine bombers for Japan - and I think a 6 engine job is a very poor investment. See my public and private debates with Nemo on the subject! If Germany could not make even 60 Me-264s, even admitting Japan did better than Germany relative to the size of its air industry, I don't believe in vast numbers of 4 engine planes - never mind 6 engine ones. And every time you lose one of those - what an investment you have lost = more than 3 fighter planes in WITP terms (and more IRL). [WITP cost = 126 for G10 and 36 for a 1E fighter or 54 for a 2E fighter or bomber]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Try tragic... But that's the way the Axis went; they all suffered from Huge-Must-Equal-Better-Syndrome...

I take a different view. We had an almost identical design in the same period - called the B-36 - and we actually built it.

Very high altitude but SLOW (200 mph). The size was for the bombs. Development started very early in WWII. We moved away from them as soon as we had reasonable alternatives. In the end, they were used for high-altitude recon, until the Soviets could reach their flight altitude with interceptors. Replaced in that mission by the U2.