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Ok, I have noticed that the OOB (even in CHS/RHS) for the Dutch East Indies starts out all infantry units at about 50% disabled.

Is there a known historical basis for this? or is this just a matter of no one doing enough research?

I know I have been looking, but I have not yet been able to find any info on that - one way or another.... HELP!!!!

Just a thought but their homeland had surrendered to the Germans. Perhaps they had trouble getting parts, replacements, etc. Not to mention the effect on morale.

While that is certainly a possibility - I am hopeing to find some source with a detailed OOB.

This is from the Warplan Orange manual - perhaps the Dutch forces represent something analogous (local garrisons rather than regular troops).  Just a guess....

8.8 BRITISH UNITS IN THE FAR EAST
At the start of the campaigns in 1922 and 1926, British units above the Battalion Level in the Far East have a high
disabled percentage of 50-66%. This means that at the start of the game a Division will roughly be at Regimental
strength, while a Brigade will be at Battalion strength. This represents the fact that in the 1920’s, British troops in
India and Malaya were used as local police forces, crucial to regional stability. However, players can, if they wish,
use these troops offensively or to help block a Japanese attack in areas elsewhere. Considering that these troops
would be lightly equipped and not very well trained (all represented in the high disablement), doing so would not
only be costly, but probably foolhardy. This also represents the probable historic course that in the 1920’s British
troops would not be sent to American held soil to help repel a Japanese invasion. Players may do so, but at a great
penalty.

These units, if left in India and Malaya, will over the course of time be rebuilt to full strength and can be used
normally. This represents an infl ux of trained troops plus new troops arriving to take over police duties, releasing
these troops for combat overseas.

All units at Shanghai (as part of the Shanghai Volunteer Corps) are at the Battalion level, and are exempt from this
rule. French units in Indo-China and Tientsin, China, represented at the Regimental level, are also exempt.

Don't have a detailed OOB, it's not very likely one exists, but ...

Holland had a major mobilization less than a year prior, to prepare for a possible confrontation with the Germans - cadre reduction and withdrawal from "regular" DEI based units was very likely; then a major defeat and govt/admin was in shambles - no replacements, no nothing; needles to say, the cadre didn't come back.

Dutch rule of DEI was not the most enlightened (sorry my Dutch friends). Many (I have heard the term 'most' used here as well) native Javanese and Sumatran soldiers heeded Sukarno's call and voted with their feet. IMHO, DEI units ought to be pretty sparsely populated; how sparsely though is anybodys guess.

JWE

ORIGINAL: JWE
Holland had a major mobilization less than a year prior, to prepare for a possible confrontation with the Germans - cadre reduction and withdrawal from "regular" DEI based units was very likely;

It is very unlikely. The same as US Army takes people from US Navy. Possible but unlikely.

I think Dr. Niehorster's OOB is pretty complete.


http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016 ... _army.html

Except for the cadre all Knil personel was local ( most from Ambon)
Nothing sent from holland in to fill up the ranks in '39 or '40
I don't know about the nr of personel , but weapons whas mostly captured italian'stuff by the brittish in North africa , and anything else local gouverment could get their hand on.

Knil forces was not like a standing army but more a police force to keep the locals under control. fyi the rebel forces in atjeh wich signed just recently a threaty was active since the dutch took control many moons ago.

Thanks everyone, Especially Don for that excellent link!!

All others have said are probably the reasons. The first thing that came to mind for me was that the Dutch units were probably largely demobilzed at the beginning of the war. Many times these kinds of units would be made up of reservists, some of whom would always be on duty, the rest would be home doing their normal jobs. When war comes, all the reservists get called up. However, it takes some time to organize and get everybody marching in the same direction.

Bill

The responses to your post probably raised more questions than you anticipated. This is the real stuff and meat of what a forum should represent.

Yes, Dr. Niehorster is the definitive authority on whatever he publishes. His OOBs are meticulous and, imho, dispositive (I thought everybody knew about Leo).

Looking in the margins, Leo defines the regular, ‘establishment’, basis for a constituted unit; looking at authorizations from the governing authority. If we are speaking about units that did not fall within the authority of the Ministerie van Defensie (Koniglijke Landmacht), specifically the Koniglijke Marechausee forces (Colonial Affairs), it is not likely that they would be represented in a scholarly work on Orders Of Battle.

The DEI troops were, some ‘regular’, some in the nature of a constabulary. The ‘regular’ establishment was mostly senior NCOs (from Holland) and officers (from Holland) as cadre; junior grade officers and ‘lance’ (brevet or ‘conditional’) NCOs coming from the locals. The ‘constabulary’ was officered by Dutch colonial locals and trooped by whomever. Generally, all troops, whether regular or constabulary, came from “local” sources, Javanese, Amboinese, Celebese, etc.

You can’t forget the Achmed Sukarno (and others), who believed in the very enticing propaganda about the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. There was a massive outpouring of support, initially, for an oriental (Japanese) opposition to western colonialism. Troops respond to their homeland imperatives, not the orders of their superiors. Were DEI units thin?? I would bet good money that the only people who shot at a Japanese soldier were white and regulars, or good local hardheaded Dutchmen, and loyal native soldiers, attached thereto.

Don’t forget that Saddam Hussein had an OOB too. The OOB is admin, affectivity is what matters.

God bless.

JWE

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

You may want to try here as well...

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/oob.html

Thanks once again treespider - you always come through!

B