Matrix Games Forums

I know roleplaying and wargaming has a certain degree of joint interest, so I would like to draw your attention to this...

http://warisunlimited.wikidot.com

the Winter War is the next war being examined, so if you want to roleplay being a Finn in a band of partisans, this is the place to do it.

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

if you want to roleplay being a Finn in a band of partisans

That is more like insult invented by soviets for our long range patrol groups [:-]

We prefer term guerrilla. And that's for behind the line operations (recon, sabotage etc.), not for front line grunts.

Hmm wish I had some idea exactly what the objective of that MUSH was.

When I saw the thread title, the first thing that entered my mind, was a rolegaming product of the 80s called Behind Enemy Lines. A paper and pencil rolegaming product where you roleplayed out being a military forces type in WW2. Generally something like a commando or a paratrooper, or just some ordinary groups on a scouting recon mission.

Then the realm of computer type rolegames became more and more popular.

But in this day and age, I can't see the appeal of ancient text only MUSHs.

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

But in this day and age, I can't see the appeal of ancient text only MUSHs.

Well, theres actual roleplaying on them, in a tabletop RPG sense, which you don't get on graphical games. I've never found a MMORPG I could play... it's like the difference between a CRPG and pencil and paper games.

...if you have a look at the link there there are some examples of actual play. The point of it is trying to play a character anyway, and being text based its more literary in style than cinematic style graphical games.

Remember the Twilight 2000 RPG?

That was by GDW? I think.

ORIGINAL: Harry Flashman

Remember the Twilight 2000 RPG?

That was by GDW? I think.

Indeed I do. And yeah, GDW it was.

Very cool game, that one... Bought myself silly in sourcebooks![:D]

GDW made a number of good RPG series...

Alas, I have experienced Behind Enemy Lines (owned it temporarily till I realised it was pointless in my area).

I have also experienced Top Secret, Twilight 2000 and a few of the scifi portions of a few major systems such as Rolemaster and Alternity.

Going to be blunt here.

I have not as yet encountered a single person under 20 that has a (&*%^%* clue when it comes to actual military operations, or rolelaying where tangible science is attempted.
Unfortunately watching Hollywood war movies and watching Star Trek will not actually teach you anything worthwhile.

But after 20, your chances of finding a rolegaming nerd that will actually have learned anything useful is still incredibly slim.

I know one guy from my highschool days who could run circles around anyone I know where the military is concerned. He's simply seen too much.

I know one guy in his mid 20's that actually knows real science.

Beyond that, I have found it's better to be playing a fantasy genre roleplaying game ie Dungeons and Dragons etc, as you don't need much background education to enjoy being an elf/dwarf/human magic user etc.

Well, it isn't meant to be a hyper accurate depiction of military life - which is impossible anyway on a multiplayer game on the internet.  People drop in and drop out all the time, people log in in different timezones, so any form of military hierarchy is out the window right from the getgo, except in the loosest possible terms.  A MUSH is much stricter than a MMORPG but some basic facts like people having real lives remain constant...

...that said, (most) people do try, most people do go out of their way to read about the theme.  On a MMORPG there is no discipline whatsoever, which means there is no roleplaying.  On a MUSH, which is run by volunteers and doesn't have money as a goal, those disruptive to roleplay get kicked out, and usually, those who are unable to express themselves coherently in writing don't play, for obvious reasons.

The objective is to have fun.  As it is of all games.  No Matrix game duplicates reality /perfectly/, because that is an impossibility.  No roleplaying game will either.  Games are not for perfectionists at all, IMHO, they are, at best, an approximation.  But on the other hand on an RPG you're supposed to be using your imagination a lot, so
you can fill in the blanks yourself.


...and D&D?  you must be kidding.  What a load of a shite.  [:D]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

On a MMORPG there is no discipline whatsoever

I gotta point out that in this case you are wrong. I'm not active MMORPG player, but what I have learned from my brother, some sort of discipline DOES exist. For example in World of Warcraft there are some sort of cooperation and even coordination in groups... of course depending what kind of people are there. Anyways individuals of group stay with the group and don't go wander around. Tough monsters are engaged one at the time, if at all possible. Of course idiots and troublemakers exists, but those don't get place in serious organizations (called guilds).

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

On a MMORPG there is no discipline whatsoever

I gotta point out that in this case you are wrong. I'm not active MMORPG player, but what I have learned from my brother, some sort of discipline DOES exist. For example in World of Warcraft there are some sort of cooperation and even coordination in groups... of course depending what kind of people are there. Anyways individuals of group stay with the group and don't go wander around. Tough monsters are engaged one at the time, if at all possible. Of course idiots and troublemakers exists, but those don't get place in serious organizations (called guilds).

well, I've not played WoW, but I have played Eve, and was in an Eve "clan" (well, corporation I think they are called?) and, while I know that nermals get booted out of the clan/guild/corp, its not the same thing, because they don't have the same goals.

On a MUSH the way to get a bad rep is to not act "in theme" or not have sufficient depth, understanding and expression of your characters IC history and personality. On Eve, at least, you got kudos for being a 'productive and efficient asteroid miner', or skilled at space combat, or whatever. I never saw, on any MMORPG, anybody get slapped down for 'acting badly'. Because on MMORPGs theres no acting. I know WoW has RP servers but, with my admittedly biased point of view, its definitely not the same thing, its like comparing Neverwinter Nights to tabletop D&D.

Theres a Swede and Finn who play on this game who ruthlessly weed out those who don't act the part, who put up notices about what Finland was like in 1939, and people are expected to abide by what they say, so there is at least an attempt to nudge people into some sort of approximation of matching the game world. People who don't have Finnish names get told to change them, people who say they are volunteers in the army get told its a conscription based army and made to change their background, people who don't mention the finnish civil war get nudged and asked to consider this in their characters.

The discipline has a different goal in mind than that found on an MMORPG.

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

people are expected to abide by what they say, so there is at least an attempt to nudge people into some sort of approximation of matching the game world.

Does this mean swearing like in Unknown soldier? I can do that [:D]

How well do you speak (or type) finnish, Banana? [;)]

people who say they are volunteers in the army get told its a conscription based army and made to change their background

That's bit weird, becouse there WERE volunteers, at least from Sweden. And I have read book (novel) about finnish volunteers, 17 year olds or so.

people who don't mention the finnish civil war get nudged and asked to consider this in their characters.

I have relative who's job is to search people's backgrounds. I think most of my ancestors fighting civil war (of those who were fighting it) were on white side, but I'd better confirm it. Anyways I might take a look at game, though I have plenty of other games waiting (Combat Mission 3 has been around some time but have never installed it yet)

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

people are expected to abide by what they say, so there is at least an attempt to nudge people into some sort of approximation of matching the game world.

Does this mean swearing like in Unknown soldier? I can do that [:D]

Dunno, the swedes/finns who play there go on about Unknown Soldier a lot... and one of the characters is called Rokka if that means anything... means nothing to me, as I have not read it.

How well do you speak (or type) finnish, Banana? [;)]

Aside from discovering the word 'Perkele' recently, I don't. :p

people who say they are volunteers in the army get told its a conscription based army and made to change their background

That's bit weird, becouse there WERE volunteers, at least from Sweden. And I have read book (novel) about finnish volunteers, 17 year olds or so.

The war hasn't actually started yet in game, its just about to begin, so no volunteers - yet. The swedish volunteer troops with their cool BAR knockoff guns will be in it later I think.

There is one Finn playing there already, the only RL Finn (he's called Matti in game as it happens ) so if you /do/ log on try talking to him. type WHO to see who is logged on and p matti=text to talk to him, if you see him.

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

How well do you speak (or type) finnish, Banana? [;)]

Aside from discovering the word 'Perkele' recently, I don't. :p

My question was meant as indirect question whether or not knowing language (finnish, russian, german...) is required to play within the faction (Finland, Soviet Union, Germany...)

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Alas, I have experienced Behind Enemy Lines (owned it temporarily till I realised it was pointless in my area).

I have also experienced Top Secret, Twilight 2000 and a few of the scifi portions of a few major systems such as Rolemaster and Alternity.

Going to be blunt here.

I have not as yet encountered a single person under 20 that has a (&*%^%* clue when it comes to actual military operations, or rolelaying where tangible science is attempted.
Unfortunately watching Hollywood war movies and watching Star Trek will not actually teach you anything worthwhile.

But after 20, your chances of finding a rolegaming nerd that will actually have learned anything useful is still incredibly slim.

I know one guy from my highschool days who could run circles around anyone I know where the military is concerned. He's simply seen too much.

I know one guy in his mid 20's that actually knows real science.

Beyond that, I have found it's better to be playing a fantasy genre roleplaying game ie Dungeons and Dragons etc, as you don't need much background education to enjoy being an elf/dwarf/human magic user etc.

Hi LES!

I am a big fan.

I need your advice on proper gaming, see my 7 year old likes checkers a lot and while checkers may be a good game for some slack-jawed pre zit popping adolescent to get their kicks from I just can't see the appeal in this day and age of graphics driven interfaces. Now he looks at me sort of vacantly when I try to explain to him that hexed gaming is by necessity a superior product for modeling military actions, and that checkers is but another failed attempt to recapture the ASL glory days of my youth.

Should I prune my hedges it is freezing outside eh?

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
My question was meant as indirect question whether or not knowing language (finnish, russian, german...) is required to play within the faction (Finland, Soviet Union, Germany...)

Ah. No, its an English game, so its all written in english.

"Hi LES!

I am a big fan.

I need your advice on proper gaming, see my 7 year old likes checkers a lot and while checkers may be a good game for some slack-jawed pre zit popping adolescent to get their kicks from I just can't see the appeal in this day and age of graphics driven interfaces. Now he looks at me sort of vacantly when I try to explain to him that hexed gaming is by necessity a superior product for modeling military actions, and that checkers is but another failed attempt to recapture the ASL glory days of my youth.

Should I prune my hedges it is freezing outside eh?"

Crawl back to your cretin forum please. Cut EUBanana some slack and do your anti Les ranting somewhere else. And don't even think you can cry foul, only a dolt would mistake the point of your post (or someone unware of your motive).

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

only a dolt would mistake the point of your post (or someone unware of your motive).

In the spirit of bluntness:

Was the point to reveal a pompous arse too clueless to realize how many people he's just insulted?


@EU

Thanks for the link.

Usual style. Someone comes on and posts no personal insult, Les blasts them, nothing happens to Les, thread gets locked. Nothing personal Les, but I've seen it on a number of forums now. I actually admire your talent on not getting canned. I dunno how you do it.
 
 
 
Goblin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Usual style. Someone comes on and posts no personal insult, Les blasts them, nothing happens to Les, thread gets locked. Nothing personal Les, but I've seen it on a number of forums now. I actually admire your talent on not getting canned. I dunno how you do it.

Not sure either.

It seems the tastes of current youth have shyed away from the pastimes of our youth, to more technological varities, such as anime.