Pretty hard to tell what all these things mean

[Berkut]

As a general rule, any icon should have a popup saying what it is - *especially* in a game like this where there are about 500 different little indicators of some kind or another. It is pretty dissapointing that not only is there no such pop up, the manual does a poor job of labeling and explaining them.

There is a picture of the unit box, and a (seemingly) incomplete description of the icons, but no labeling between the picture and the icons! Not even a copy of the actual icon next to each bullet describing it!

Specific question: In the manual, it shows an example unit information screen. Next to the attack/defense bars, and below the capabilities icons, there are two larger icons. One has a 30 in it, the other a +24. As far as I can tell, these are not defined anywhere. What are they?

Is there any chance that a future patch could implement tool tip pop ups? I lost a potential PBEM opponenet already over this. At first, he was impressed by the level of detail, and sophisticated user interface, with lots of information visuaully presented. Then he said "No thanks" once he realized he was expected to memorize what all those icons meant, without any in game reminders.

Seriously, for a game that has clearly had a lot of effort going into the graphical UI, not properly documenting and labeling those elements, both in the manual and in the game itself, is very, very unfortunate.

[Erik Rutins]

Have you already tried looking through the right click popup info?

[JSS]

The unit pop ups are really easy to learn.  It's well worth a try.

Anyway, I'll be posting a tutorial throughout the next week.  One of the topics will be a reference guide to the unit pop up.

[Berkut]

ORIGINAL: JSS

The unit pop ups are really easy to learn. It's well worth a try.

You don't have to convince *me*.

Or rather, convincing me isn't the point. And no, they are not "easy to learn", they are a pain the ass to learn. I will agree they are worth it though.

But you should not HAVE to "learn" them. The art of effective interface design is that the user should never be required to memorize a bunch of symbols and their meaning before being able to effectively use the interface.

What is odd about the entire GBWW2 engine games is that the designers ahve embraced one part of effective interface design (graphical representation of information) while ignoring the part of interface design that makes that representation painless to use.

Tooltips pop-ups. They are the standard these days. Have been for a while. Are not even that hard to implement.

[Berkut]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Have you already tried looking through the right click popup info?

I don't think there is any right-click pop-up info on the unit screen. Those seem to only be coded for actual buttons.

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: Berkut
You don't have to convince *me*.

Or rather, convincing me isn't the point. And no, they are not "easy to learn", they are a pain the ass to learn. I will agree they are worth it though.

But you should not HAVE to "learn" them. The art of effective interface design is that the user should never be required to memorize a bunch of symbols and their meaning before being able to effectively use the interface.

What is odd about the entire GBWW2 engine games is that the designers ahve embraced one part of effective interface design (graphical representation of information) while ignoring the part of interface design that makes that representation painless to use.

Tooltips pop-ups. They are the standard these days. Have been for a while. Are not even that hard to implement.

The unit pop ups become fairly intuitive once you understand the basic concept (most areas have a visual clue to their meaning). I'll post a quick reference sheet that I think will be very useful in this regard. Have a very big briefing at work today, once that's past the tutorial will go up quickly. Will bump this reference tool up to first item posted. The basic scenario to use with the tutorial is posted on the SSG Scenario Download area now.

BiN & BII had a mouse over ability; it used a display area rather than a pop up (tied to the "Q" hotkey)... was a start at least.

[BlackSunshine]

ORIGINAL: Berkut

ORIGINAL: JSS

The unit pop ups are really easy to learn. It's well worth a try.

You don't have to convince *me*.

Or rather, convincing me isn't the point. And no, they are not "easy to learn", they are a pain the ass to learn. I will agree they are worth it though.

But you should not HAVE to "learn" them. The art of effective interface design is that the user should never be required to memorize a bunch of symbols and their meaning before being able to effectively use the interface.

What is odd about the entire GBWW2 engine games is that the designers ahve embraced one part of effective interface design (graphical representation of information) while ignoring the part of interface design that makes that representation painless to use.

Tooltips pop-ups. They are the standard these days. Have been for a while. Are not even that hard to implement.

Agree 100% with this post. Love the game, it just needs to be more intuitive.

Every icon/number should be able to be moused over and what it means should be down in the help area.

[fabforrest]

well, i am beginning to think this is not the game for me. too bad, as i was particularly fond of two of the scenario theaters (gazala, market garden). however, it seems there is more to keep track of and less ability to do so than in BiN and BiN was at the limit of my playability zone.

i hope they don't do this with CAW.

[Doobious]

ORIGINAL: Berkut

no, they are not "easy to learn", they are a pain the ass to learn. I will agree they are worth it though.

But you should not HAVE to "learn" them. The art of effective interface design is that the user should never be required to memorize a bunch of symbols and their meaning before being able to effectively use the interface.

Wow do I TOTALLY agree with this. Rehashing an old game is a great thing, but I would hope for minor improvements when I pay $50 for a decade old game being rereleased.

[Erik Rutins]

Doobious,

This is NOT a re-release. It's named the same as the original SSG game, but it is a brand new engine that was built by SSG from the ground up, based on their DB interface and system.

Regards,

- Erik

[rich12545]

The old Battlefront was one of my all time fav games.  Maybe it should have been a re-release.

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: rich12545

The old Battlefront was one of my all time fav games. Maybe it should have been a re-release.

I just recently discoverd this game...great game and a re-release with modern graphics, etc., would have been awesome. Frankly, I just love how I can give an order with one click and about 5 guys move.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: TPM
Frankly, I just love how I can give an order with one click and about 5 guys move.

You should play C.O.T.A.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: TPM
Frankly, I just love how I can give an order with one click and about 5 guys move.

You should play C.O.T.A.

While I agree with Joe 98 (disclosure: I'm a beta tester for Panther Games).......I am also a long, long time old school boardgame grognard who still enjoys a good "board game on the computer".

While I have been a long time fan of the Decisive Battles series, it is no secret to anyone familiar with them that their two biggest shortcomigs are the garishly colored, over busy, headache causing graphics and their complete lack of tool tips to explain what all the icons mean to noobs. It takes many, many repitions of game play to become familiar with all the icons.

While the original game in the series, Bulge, came on the scene long before tooltips were an inherent part of the Windows operating system, it does appear to be a significant failure on the part of the dev teams to be continuing to overlook the need for them in each new release!

With all that said, I still feel that they are the best "boardgames on a computer" around.