Matrix Games Forums

I have just been browsing several items and locations on Harpoon3 ANW. Apart from having trouble accessing some of 3rd party data bases and not being able to get some going, notably WW2 data base, I have stumble across comments from the Harpoon HQ website stating most of the scenarios from the old DBs won't work on versions 3.7 or 3.8 and gamers should stick to version 3.6, can some one enlighten me on this please. The comment was made that 3.7 was so buggy that the developers just changed it to 3.8 to hide the problems. I have just toying with the game so far, but it seems the age old problems with refuelling still exist. refuellers won't refuel and I can find any reference of logistics in the manual. As an old old owner of most Harpoon creations I have mulled over the purchase of this game for many months, the of forking out $65 was made on the Matrix claim, that many old bugs were fixed and third party Db were easy to access, sadly its not been a good start, I need some one to convince me quickly I have done the right thing before I go off my platform.

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I think this is frankly a ridiculous line of argument.
On the one hand you are saying that people are refusing to bring their databases up to date, yet at the same time you indicate that the editors have not been made available to all. I can understand the editors being refused to those who copy others work. I can't honestly see why they are refused to those who publicise bugs.
 
You also indicate that people within the community are not helping the development of the game. Those same people posted a listing of bugs in July 2006, many of which have yet to be addressed. I agree progress is being made, but in a wargame, critical combat related bugs are surely a priority?
 
People welcome the addition of new elements, and MP is a good example. But for me the actual combat phase isn't quite there yet.

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Once the combat related bugs I discussed with you can be sorted, I think we'll be a lot closer to a more complete game. The speed issue you mention in another thread, and if that has a big impact would also make a welcome difference.

Hello,

have been playing for nearly the whole Sunday H3 ANW (3.8.0 RC8) , "A Fight to the Death", one hell of a scenario I always loved. And I have real fun doing so! I have played PC Harpoon for nearly 15 years now and suffered under the old DOS H2 like so many others.

H3 ANW is not complete but I think it improves. I´ve been testing it for weeks now. Found some shortcomings/bugs, some of them widely discussed on several sites. But there are improvements compared with 3.6.x too.

To summarize: I - first - did not experience even a single crash and had - second - very much fun!

Even bought a second copy to play MP in my home LAN.

I really think we should give ANW a try. It is worlds apart from the old DOS versions.

I am looking forward to write my first scen for ANW.

ORIGINAL: Flankerk

Once the combat related bugs I discussed with you can be sorted, I think we'll be a lot closer to a more complete game. The speed issue you mention in another thread, and if that has a big impact would also make a welcome difference.

I agree with Steve on this one. I use the game as a tool to model naval combat. For now I've got to use both versions of the game to accomplish certain things. I think some fixes would go a long way to getting me to use one game (H3 ANW)and some of them include the things Ragnar has listed. If they're not fixed thats okay. I'll stick to what I've got or move on to something that has it.

Thanks!

G'day again, I have played a couple of scenarios over the weekend, the game appears to be much faster than old versions, however I still can't get refuelling to work, please point mein the right direction or where is it mention in the manual or a hot key may suffice
thanks

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As someone who is looking at purchasing a version of Harpoon to replace the ultra-old Harpoon 1 and 2 games I have and is concerned at what is being said about V3.6 vs 3.7/3.8 could someone explain why it appears to be fundamentally impossible for AGSI to allow both a V3.6 an 3.8 patch to be available so that players can choose which version they use?
 
I play a lot of WiTP and at least with WiTP there seems to be a fair bit of freedom in which patch people are playing with. If the switch from 3.6 to 3.7/8 is, arguably, accompanied by several unwanted bugs then why not just allow players to "downgrade" from 3.8 to 3.6 if they so choose? It would seem to be a public relations coup and would allow those who justifiably or unjustifiably hate 3.7 and 3.8 to stick with 3.6.
 
 
It would also, more importantly from my point of view, give someone who is considering a new purchase the option of saying "Well, I have the option of both versions and will just go with whichever one I feel is better" in terms of bugs etc. It would remove some of the perceived risk from new purchases and that can only help sales.
 
 
So, any shedding of light possible?

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

As someone who is looking at purchasing a version of Harpoon to replace the ultra-old Harpoon 1 and 2 games I have and is concerned at what is being said about V3.6 vs 3.7/3.8 could someone explain why it appears to be fundamentally impossible for AGSI to allow both a V3.6 an 3.8 patch to be available so that players can choose which version they use?

I play a lot of WiTP and at least with WiTP there seems to be a fair bit of freedom in which patch people are playing with. If the switch from 3.6 to 3.7/8 is, arguably, accompanied by several unwanted bugs then why not just allow players to "downgrade" from 3.8 to 3.6 if they so choose? It would seem to be a public relations coup and would allow those who justifiably or unjustifiably hate 3.7 and 3.8 to stick with 3.6.


It would also, more importantly from my point of view, give someone who is considering a new purchase the option of saying "Well, I have the option of both versions and will just go with whichever one I feel is better" in terms of bugs etc. It would remove some of the perceived risk from new purchases and that can only help sales.


So, any shedding of light possible?

v3.6 predates the current marketing arrangement with Matrix.

Daniel

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ompared to 3.8, version 3.6 is a fundamentally flawed program. We have a wiki page set up to list the improvements. The What is New in Harpoon 3 ANW page.

Aw c'mon, So I have been playing a fundamentally flawed program for three years. A program that was quite happily sold by AGSI . Can I get my money back on the basis of this statement. I thought we were moving on. On the same basis 3.7 and its incarnations could be argued are "flawed". I have moved on the basis that like many people the things I am looking for are not a priority at present. Fine no problem. However comments like this do nothing to bring a bit more harmony to the community.

I think if the Harpoon Community would back up for a moment, take a breath, then start looking at where we're going with this program, that would go a long way towards healing this rift. There are a few things we need to acknowledge:

1 - Software has bugs. Short of "Hello World", you'll be hard pressed to find one that doesn't.

2 - AGSI did not commit time and resources to this software to see it fail.

3 - Constructive criticism solves problems - destructive criticism creates them.

We used to have a saying in the Navy - one I'm sure many of you have heard before...

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Many people on both sides have had their feelings hurt (you can see that in this thread and many others), but that doesn't matter because that won't solve the problem either.

The bottom line is that 3.8 ANW and the concepts behind the current direction that the software is taking is the right move. It is unfortunate that many third-party scenarios don't currently work, but if we all dug our heels in over new version compatibility issues, we'll never get anywhere.

DOS? Windows 3.11? Windows 95? Is anybody reading this using IE 3?

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone, but I'm getting tired of this argument - It's the same one that's been going on for some time.

Mark D.

In reply to NEC 1163

That is my point, maybe not made well. There is considerable body of skilled harpooners out there who could be part of the solution. Lets stick with the facts. Yes harpoon 3.6 has limitations , so does 3.7. Lets not make history in our own image by down playing 3.6
Maybe better tell us the limitation of both and let us choose. Then developers might get feedback on user priorities in order to make an informed decision about wher to go.

No software development company in their right mind would spend bandwidth, time, or money on an older and very flawed version of a program.

Well, with all due respect I know of several companies which have hosted various patch versions on their server when people were leery of upgrading to the latest and greatest version. I understand your point re: bandwidth, time, money etc but surely the decrease in confrontation between yourselves and various portions of the user community would be worth the fairly minimal investment in terms of bandwidth that hosting V3.6 would represent.

Honestly I can't see why you wouldn't do it except that it could be represented as an admission that V3.8 isn't up to scratch... which would be a misrepresentation since hosting V3.6 would admit nothing regarding the state of V3.8 but would represent a major olive branch to those rightly or wrongly disgruntled end-users who can't play the scenarios they want. For such a small investment it just seems crazy to allow this sort of upset.... I re-iterate that while I had Harpoon 1 and 2 I never purchased Harpoon 3 so don't have any axe to grind on either side.... although, obviously, I'd be more likely to purchase Harpoon 3 if I could try V3.6 and 3.8 since then I can settle on whichever version I feel works best.... Even then though it seems like a spectacular own goal to, in one fell swoop, render all of the hundreds of scenarios which have been produced by the community completely unplayable.



As an aside:
Can someone point me to a few threads pointing out improvements and possible disimprovements in V3.8 vis a vis V3.6? I'm interested in purchasing but I've learnt that when an entire community is split it is usually a sign of some major issues... It seems to me it HAS to be more than just database incompatibility screwing up all of the previously produced scenarios ---- although as someone who has modded several games I can understand just how infuriating it can be to have that happen ( especially since it seems the V3.8 scenario/database editors aren't being freely released to the community, a decision one must really question if true).

P.s. Please, I'm not interested in stirring up any more fighting ( I haven't seen the fights but they've been alluded to here and I know how the net works... or rather often fails to....), I'm just looking for information so I can make a decision.

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VCDH,
 
Good points. I suppose I'm contrary because despite all you have said, yeah, nothing convinces me like trying something and then trying its successor so I'd still like to try 3.6 so I can compare and contrast the two just to be sure. I understand your position though and certainly your explanation and some more research I've done online shows 3.8 to be much more full-featured ( albeit still with bugs present).
 
As to the editor - It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that it seems players won't get access to at least some of the powerful database editors as part of an effort to prevent others misrepresenting others work as theirs. It seems to penalise the many for the sins of the few. OTOH I doubt I'll bother much with database editing so it is less of a practical point and more of a philosophical point for me.
 
I suppose that altogether this means that later this weekend I'll be dipping into my wallet for the creditcard for this one.

ORIGINAL: VCDH

Please allow me to compare v3.6 to v3.8

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Earth rotation opposite to reality

This was to better simulate the "spirit" of the Harpoon community [:)]

ORIGINAL: VCDH

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Passive Sonar detection while platform is at Flank Speed

I.e. very slow [:D]

ORIGINAL: VCDH

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Fragmentation type warheads cause damage way out of proportion to their warheads

Again, a way to portray the daily way of living in the community... [;)]

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