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Wonder why the USS Long Island, in every mod, enters as pretty much a "door stop", when it was really the 1st CVL in the USN?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/001.htm





Was used to ferry by late 1942, but that is an option all gamers have.. I would like to see the ship enter as a CVE, as designed.

Taken at Pearl, summer of '42

The Long Island never operated as anything other than a testbed and aircraft transport. She wasn't used offensively...

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Long Island never operated as anything other than a testbed and aircraft transport. She wasn't used offensively...

If that is what I choose to do with her, let it be my prerogative. She was launched as a CVE, on purpose. Did ya' read the history of the ship, or are yuh jus' shootin' from the hip?

I read the DANFS history; you made it sound like you hadn't...

And BTW, I've used her for ASW myself, with a Marine SBD squadron. I doubt there's an Allied player who hasn't...

Long Island is rated as a CVE in RHS - all versions. It was indeed designed to be a CVE and it was also a rather inefficient early design. It could not operate as large a group as later ships. Because they existed in numbers, there was no operational requirement for it to do that. But when it first appears, it might be very useful in the CVE role - and I think that is up to players. However, it does not have an assigned air group - you must assign one. In RHS you can.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Long Island is rated as a CVE in RHS - all versions. It was indeed designed to be a CVE and it was also a rather inefficient early design. It could not operate as large a group as later ships. Because they existed in numbers, there was no operational requirement for it to do that. But when it first appears, it might be very useful in the CVE role - and I think that is up to players. However, it does not have an assigned air group - you must assign one. In RHS you can.

Thank you Sid..I have a book here that picqued my interest, which sez it and the Archer were eventually given to the Brits as CVE's, but this is not mentioned in detail in Danfs or the site I looked at??
BTW, this book claims Archer was a sister ship. I found both ships on these sites, but they don't mention them as sisters.
This book is :WARSHIPS OF THE WORLD, Gino Galuppini ISBN 0-517-86252-4

ORIGINAL: m10bob
Thank you Sid..I have a book here that picqued my interest, which sez it and the Archer were eventually given to the Brits as CVE's, but this is not mentioned in detail in Danfs or the site I looked at??
BTW, this book claims Archer was a sister ship. I found both ships on these sites, but they don't mention them as sisters.
This book is :WARSHIPS OF THE WORLD, Gino Galuppini ISBN 0-517-86252-4

Archer and LI were sister ships. LI stayed with the USN throughout the war, Archer was transferred to the UK. The RN didn't really use Archer though. She spent most of her time as either a stores ship or as an a/c ferry (renamed Empire Lagen) before being returned to the US in Jan 1946.

Hmmmm, as far as Conway's goes, Long Island's sister was the Charger, both being converted C-3 cargo ships.

In fact, I don't think LI and Archer were full sisters, since there's a 3,000 ton weight difference in LI's favour and the Archer was also some 30 feet shorter... Maybe cousins, but they don't sound like sisters...

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Hmmmm, as far as Conway's goes, Long Island's sister was the Charger, both being converted C-3 cargo ships.

In fact, I don't think LI and Archer were full sisters, since there's a 3,000 ton weight difference in LI's favour and the Archer was also some 30 feet shorter... Maybe cousins, but they don't sound like sisters...

I'm pretty sure that despite their differences Archer and LI are considered to have been sister ships. Charger was part of a seperate class of US built and RN operated CVEs; Charger, Biter, Dasher and Avenger.

Erm, no... Charger was kept by the USN as a training ship...

(again according to Conway's)

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Erm, no... Charger was kept by the USN as a training ship...

(again according to Conway's)

You know what I meant [:-] [:)]

I think that you will find that technically she was transferred to the RN on 2nd Oct 1941, then returned to the USN 2 days later.

[:'(][;)]

The Long Island did have an air group when it arrived in the Pacific. However, she never left the West Coast with it. The air group was moved to another CVE, I think USS Card and Long Island was used as an auxillary carrier.

Info on the LI:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/cve1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Long_Island_(CVE-1)

In the game, I find Long Island very handy as an aircraft ferry. It will carry any fighter squadron (including P-38s) as well as any single engine bomber squadron. That gets units into the fight quicker because they don't have to be trnsported all the way to the new base, they just have to be brought within ferry range and can be flown off. The unit arrives in the war zone with all (or at least most, sometimes there are landing accidents) aircraft intact and ready to fight.

I send all task forces headed for the Solomons, Australia, or anywhere else west of Guadalcanal down to the Phoenix Islands, then across to Gudalcanal, then on to their destination. With an aircraft ferry TF, I can usually launch the cargo about halfway between the Phoenix Islands and Guadalcanal. Henderson Field becomes a distribution point for new units arriving in the region. With aircraft ferries, I can shave about 2 days off the voyage, and the time it takes to reassemble the planes once they arrive.

In my first long campaign, I left a CV's air group in Pearl (set to No replacements) and used it as an aircraft ferry for a trip or two. Beats the heck out of using AKs.

Bill

I usually use Long Island as an aircraft ferry as well. I didn't realise that it could carry single engine bombers as well.

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Wonder why the USS Long Island, in every mod, enters as pretty much a "door stop", when it was really the 1st CVL in the USN?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/001.htm

Was used to ferry by late 1942, but that is an option all gamers have.. I would like to see the ship enter as a CVE, as designed.

Must agree with Bob (what in the world is m10?), with all due respect to Terminus, Conways and DANFS.

In a perfect world, a CVE, as an aircraft transport, can deliver a day-1, fully operational air group (ok squadron or 2), as opposed to mailing it by AK, boxed and 'assembly required' upon delivery. Thus the CVE has a place in the lineup.

Notwithstanding, as players, we are Roosevelt, King, BUSHIPS, Nimitz, etc.. (and Churchill, and Somerville, hello Dixie) and can decide how we wish to allocate our resources. Given a 'carrier capable' squadron, there is no reason why we cannot choose to deploy it on any 'air' capable ship. Don't forget, during the Korean Agression, Marine F-4 FB squadrons were routinely deployed on CVE types, offshore in the Sea of Japan.

Ciao. JWE

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Wonder why the USS Long Island, in every mod, enters as pretty much a "door stop", when it was really the 1st CVL in the USN?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/001.htm

Was used to ferry by late 1942, but that is an option all gamers have.. I would like to see the ship enter as a CVE, as designed.

Must agree with Bob (what in the world is m10?), with all due respect to Terminus, Conways and DANFS.

In a perfect world, a CVE, as an aircraft transport, can deliver a day-1, fully operational air group (ok squadron or 2), as opposed to mailing it by AK, boxed and 'assembly required' upon delivery. Thus the CVE has a place in the lineup.

Notwithstanding, as players, we are Roosevelt, King, BUSHIPS, Nimitz, etc.. (and Churchill, and Somerville, hello Dixie) and can decide how we wish to allocate our resources. Given a 'carrier capable' squadron, there is no reason why we cannot choose to deploy it on any 'air' capable ship. Don't forget, during the Korean Agression, Marine F-4 FB squadrons were routinely deployed on CVE types, offshore in the Sea of Japan.

Ciao. JWE

An M10 is the American tank destroyer from WW2. I am a huge Steel Panthers WAW fan and I named myself after that weapon in memory of the TD units who went out in their very lightly armored, very inferior weaponed vehicle, and were often deployed (wrongfully) in the role of tanks by over-zealous infantry commanders.

The site I linked to actually did give the unit number(s) for at least 1 unit that was based on the Long Island.
An above (well-meaning) poster commented the ship (and its' attached squadron) never made it off the west coast, kinda contradicts the pics I posted,taken at Pearl, in the summer of '42.
Please see the link in my initial post.[;)]

http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/001.htm

Marine F4U squadrons were first deployed on CVEs in 1945. I can't recall if it was during the Iwo Jima or Okinawa campaign.

It would be nice if the game gave us the flexibility to assign air groups to carriers in any way we choose. The game engine doesn't lend itself to that sort of flexability. By the time the Essex program hit its stride, the Navy had more air groups than carriers and rotated them out on a somewhat regular basis. By 1944, there were always several air groups on the West Coast and in the Hawaii Islands rebuilding, refitting, or just decompressing.

The CVEs didn't change air groups as often because they weren't in heavy combat as often. There were still many composite air groups ashore working up for deployment.

BTW, by looking here: http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/

You can see the movements of the Long Island and her air group. In August 1942, she had an air group of 12 SOCs. In October, she had 6 F4F. Her air group was shore by late November, 42. By Feb 1943, VGS-1 is abourd the USS Card in New York.

Even in fthe darkest days of the carrier fleet when the Enterprise was the only operational CV, it doesn't look like anybody entertained the delusion of deploying the Long Island into combat with an air group. When VGS-1 was aboard the LI, it was not fit for any kind of combat.

Bill

Bill

ORIGINAL: m10bob

An M10 is the American tank destroyer from WW2. I am a huge Steel Panthers WAW fan and I named myself after that weapon in memory of the TD units who went out in their very lightly armored, very inferior weaponed vehicle, and were often deployed (wrongfully) in the role of tanks by over-zealous infantry commanders.

The site I linked to actually did give the unit number(s) for at least 1 unit that was based on the Long Island.
An above (well-meaning) poster commented the ship (and its' attached squadron) never made it off the west coast, kinda contradicts the pics I posted,taken at Pearl, in the summer of '42.

Ahh, ok, got it.

That would be over zealous generals. Please be kind to company and field grade infantry types, who had no input on inter-Branch operability. They had to do with what they had. It was the generals (and the Branch Boards) who fumbled the whole GD thing.

JWE