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Played out the player developed HnM Kesselsdorf scenario (computer fought me to a draw) and then, thinking that the Chevalier de Saxe as one of the Saxon leaders might be a mistake (it wasn't as best as I can tell), went out onto the web and, managed to stumble onto Carlyle's 'The complete history of FtG'... the complete volumes online and... a fairly detailed, if somewhat rampling account, replete with many insults of the Saxons and their ruler <g>, of the battle of Kesselsdorf in volume 15.

From Carlyle.... the Saxons formed a line running from the northeast to the southwest, from the village of Kesselsdorf on their left to the Elbe river on their right. They were on high ground and, in front of them, a brook with nasty gorges and frozen quagmire getting more severe as it reached the Elbe.

The player developed scenario had the Saxons on high ground but, otherwise, doesn't do justice to what is described in Carlyle (e.g. nice try but...). Neither Kesselsdorf or the Elbe is shown on the battlefield... nor is the nasty brook.. and the orientation is wrong.

So... so much for that one. Apparently there is a map in Carlyle but the online edition of the book does not have it.

Also... as far as the battle is concerned.... the Saxons were in about as good a defensive position as you could imagine, and the Prussians tried twice to take the Saxon position near Kesselsdorf but were thrown back (how does this get simulated in HnM turns... routing and then getting brought back up to speed and trying again? Not sure there is enough time in HnM for that).

But, after they got thrown back the second time a batallion of Austrians and a couple batallions of Saxon grenadiers.... decided to counter attack and... this proved their ondoing as Leopold attacked and annilated them with his cavalry and the momentum from that took the Prussians over the Saxon position.. and everything was downhill from there for the Saxons (the last battle they ever fought as an independant nation).

Uh... for historicity... might want to have something where units can take independant action, even if disasterous, depending on the situation. But, if any player had something like this happen to them playing a scenario... might be tempted to put their fist through their monitor so... hmmm... maybe not <g>.

In any case.... I don't feel the HnM player developed scenairo really cuts it as far as Kesselsdorf is concerned (don't know about the OOB though) but, IMO, could probably put something together that is reasonably accurate given the description in Carlyle (assuming OOBs can be obtained otherwise).

Whatever... just thought I'd post this one.

DiT

Dit..


glad to see you are taking my advice,,and looking for some good reads on the SYW... nice one btw...

just curious.. by player developed,, do you mean 3rd party? or the scenarios that came with the game? I don't have H&M installed,,and cannot remember if this is in the game or not,seems it is

why don't you create a scenario for H&M 2? I would be glad to playtest it for you

anvil

if you need a good map of Kesseldorf.. let me know and i will send you one..

anvil

anvl....

If you think I value the advice of someone who finds scenarios challanging that I can beat 71-4..... guess again!!!

Would be best if you didn't resond to my posts anymore. At least not until you can beat the PWM Mollwitz Austrians by something close to 71-4. Otherwise, your responses to my posts really subtract from the value of this board.

I suggested previously that you not respond to my posts and I would not respond to yours... but you refused. So, if you continue to respond to my posts... I will just be reminding you (when I am not otherwise simply ignoring you) about your inability to come anywhere close to the 71-4 margin that I achieved.

DiT

Anvl and DiT,
keep things civil, please. I know you are both advocating great ideas for the games, and I want you to continue.

Just remember that all posts don't necessarily come across the right way to the reader.

Tim

Just want to say here that... I got on MSN Virtual Earth.. and that didn't make it but... from playing Flight Simulator I have some map URLs and have one for the German equivalent and.... I was able to get all the ways down to where it showed Kesselsdorf (due west of Dresden) and the Elbe and.... the Tschonengrund (by name).... running in between them... with various minor branches running here and there. So, for the map this can be used for these major items... just need to fill in the details (no easy task).

So.... would take some work pulling data in from here and there but... this can be done assuming one has the right OOB. Also, sheesh... this is a fairly large battlefiield... running almost 4 miles from one end to the other.... lets see... at 150 yards per hex... would be almost 50 hexes long.

Whatever... if this can't be done for an upcoming release... maybe some time in the future. At least for now... I don't have the time myself to pursue this as a player developed scenario.

DiT