Matrix Games Forums

Does anyone else have the original CAW for the Apple II? I still have my copy (though I have not played it in a long time), and must say that the packaging and artwork on that was superb. I miss the frills that used to come with wargames, such as the laminated maps and grease pencils that SSI supplied for its wargames, such as Computer Bismarck and Computer Ambush (great games).

I've got both Mac and DoS verisons with all the goodies, but you got me me with the Apple II copy.  [:D]

ORIGINAL: bink

Does anyone else have the original CAW for the Apple II? I still have my copy (though I have not played it in a long time), and must say that the packaging and artwork on that was superb. I miss the frills that used to come with wargames, such as the laminated maps and grease pencils that SSI supplied for its wargames, such as Computer Bismarck and Computer Ambush (great games).

I have the C64 A4 like format packaging CAW.
You're right, the goodies that came with the game were good, I loved that. I also loved the printed manuals with the data of the ships & planes.

I dung back into my old games and I too have two copies of the original CAW for the C64. After I play the new CAW, I'm going to have to fire up my C64 and play the original C64 CAW and see the differences.

ORIGINAL: Panama Red

I dung back into my old games and I too have two copies of the original CAW for the C64. After I play the new CAW, I'm going to have to fire up my C64 and play the original C64 CAW and see the differences.

I played hours on my C64. It is probably my favorite game for that system. I would love to hear your impression of the differences. I keep thinking I remember a closer zoom level than the new release has, and I would watch strikes move from hex to hex, with the tension building with each hex. It may just be a difference of screen resolution though.

Tony

I found a copy of the apple CAW on line - kinda neat to see.

Anyone know how to get a copy of the old documentation? Would be an interesting read.

Jack

Yes - I had the Apple IIe versions of CAW, Halls of Montezuma, Battlefront, and Europe Ablaze.  Many, many Good Times [:D]

Get this - I actually still have my copy of SSI's old "Torpedo Fire" (1981), where they gave you a protractor to calculate the bearing and angle to target to launch your torpedoes.

It is to this day the only time I have ever used trigonometry to play a computer game. My girlfriend saw me playing it one time and asked me what the computer was for, if I was doing all the math.

I still can't answer.

I have Torpedo Fire too!!!!!

Hi bink,

Amazing. I'm surprised SSI actually sold 2 copies of the thing.

But then again, SSI's first three published tactical games ("Computer Bismarck", "Computer Ambush (1st ed.)" and "Computer Air Combat", each 1980-81) were all direct adaptations of plotted si-move boardgames like SPI's "Sniper" or BattleLine's "Air Force", where you plotted your movement & fire, and the computer resolved the end-results for you. They were products of their era...

It was Gary Grigsby who realized the potential of the Apple II and coded a visual interface with a cursor-style movement system (i.e., a cursor representing one's position) in "Guadacanal Campaign" (SSI, 1982). With that, the revolution was on. For this alone, I consider him of of the great innovators & contributors in our hobby, and have always had great respect for his designs.

(NB: Paul Murray with "The Warp Factor" (SSI, 1981) also coded a visual interface for movement at this time, so perhaps it's a shared credit for the progress to today's games.)

ORIGINAL: ChuckK
I've got both Mac and DoS verisons with all the goodies, but you got me me with the Apple II copy.  [:D]

I just ordered CCAW. Besides the games themselves are there any mods, utilties, or scenarios which I should look at downloading? Thanks.

ORIGINAL: Def Zep

Hi bink,

Amazing. I'm surprised SSI actually sold 2 copies of the thing.

But then again, SSI's first three published tactical games ("Computer Bismarck", "Computer Ambush (1st ed.)" and "Computer Air Combat", each 1980-81) were all direct adaptations of plotted si-move boardgames like SPI's "Sniper" or BattleLine's "Air Force", where you plotted your movement & fire, and the computer resolved the end-results for you. They were products of their era...

It was Gary Grigsby who realized the potential of the Apple II and coded a visual interface with a cursor-style movement system (i.e., a cursor representing one's position) in "Guadacanal Campaign" (SSI, 1982). With that, the revolution was on. For this alone, I consider him of of the great innovators & contributors in our hobby, and have always had great respect for his designs.

(NB: Paul Murray with "The Warp Factor" (SSI, 1981) also coded a visual interface for movement at this time, so perhaps it's a shared credit for the progress to today's games.)

Good to give them credit for what they achieved for the Apple but then again when they were released, Chris Crawford had already released Eastern Front for the Atari 800 (my first computer wargame). Amazingly, all input was done via joystick. I think he deserves to be mentioned amongst the pioneers. Although I did stop playing Eastern Front once I had a few SSI games in my library. Played the heck out of Carrier Force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Fr ... uter_game)


I only currently have 2 copies of CaW (PC & Mac) but over the years I've purchased it for Apple, C64, PC (2X) & Mac.

Played the heck out of Carrier Force.

My first computer wargame, around 1985 for me, it was awesome. I even hotseated it against a friend a few times.

Def Zep,

I was a big fan of Computer Ambush (particularly the 2nd ed.) - so this was based on Sniper? What was Computer Bismarck based on?

Your description is a bit misleading for those unfamiliar with the games, since the computer also had AI, and the super tactical scale of Computer Ambush (individual soldiers) was great. I played more of this game than any other since.

Because of the tactical scale, a lot more seemed to happen in each turn. For example, soldiers moved more squares than units in other games (such as Squad Battles). You decided how to storm each individual building, not just which village to attack. For these reasons I found the game very engrossing.

I am still waiting for a modern version.

Bink

Hi bink, mjk428

Computer Ambush: Yes. On the old GEnie BBS, one of the Billings brothers said the designer, Ed Williger, liked SPI's Sniper. It was one of his favorite games and an inspiration for CA. He wanted a computer opponent to play against solitaire when he couldn't find anyone.

The more successful Computer Ambush was the 2nd edition from SSI (1982), which took fuller advantage of the Apple II's capabilities, re-developed by Larry Strawser (rules) & Kendall Whitesell (who did the coding). It had a very competent AI, in part because the playfield was limited and only the German side was run by the computer. This allowed Mr. Whitesell to script setups for the Germans, which made the scenarios quite challenging. IIRC, the first CA had a rather limited AI (which basically just moved the Germans towards you), since it was cartridge-tape based. I played a lot of that before I upgraded my Apple to a II-plus with a diskette drive - big bucks right out of college!


Eastern Front: Another innovative game, and Chris Crawford was indeed one of the early pioneers of our hobby. He too certainly contributed to the interface we all use today. Good to remember his efforts, as well!

Def Zep,
 
Are you sure the AI was redone is Computer Ambush 2nd edition?  I thought it was recoded (maybe just compiled?) rather than run in interpretive basic, as it was originally released.  I had both versions and they both ran on disk - AFAIK, SSI never released a tape version of CA for the Apple II.
 
Even Computer Bismarck was released on disk, again AFAIK never on tape.  Here is a link with a photo of the box:
http://gotcha.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ssi.htm
 
I would love to find out more historical info on CA, but there is not much out there.

Bink

Hi bink,

Very nice website you linked. Enjoyed reading a bit about SSI's history!

I don't know if SSI ever released CA (or any of its titles, for that matter) on cassette tape. Indeed, my copy of Computer Bismarck was on diskette, and it was SSI's first publication. (Still have it after all these years.)

However, on the old GEnie BBS, I remember one of the Billings'es talking about the prototype of CA. It originated on cassette, not uncommon in those days, since 5.25" disks were relatively new. It was in basic, and ran pretty slow. Limited capacity forced code to be pretty tight and to the point. For that reason, they recommended moving it to diskette. But the basic code compilation remained. In those posts, Joel (I think it was, IIRC) talked about some of the changes the 2nd edition had. One of them was an improved AI, which he credited to Ken Whitesell. My impression was that Ken had taken Ed's original code and tweaked it to run faster and add some additional move & search/LOS routines for the Germans. (It was in a thread that asked why owners of the first version might want to order an upgrade to a 2nd ed. diskette. Believe me, complaints about why one should have to order a second version of a game he'd already bought didn't start here at Matrix! [:'(])

I played the original CA, but never bought it. It was too simplistic for my (then-) taste; I preferred more involved games like AH's SL and (on the Apple) SSG's Reach for the Stars. (But I did love SSI's Computer Quarterback, mainly because I could change the default numbers assigned to plays and call in audibles against my opponent with the selector dial on my Apple II controller. Great fun!)

When I heard about the 2nd edition of CA, I decided to try it again and got hooked. The game ran much faster, especially when resolving movement and LOS checks, and it was a great hotseat game hth. Much faster than Sniper, and one didn't have to spend time plotting moves on a greenpad. Good gaming!

Computer Bismarck:

There wasn't much ever posted on GEnie about Computer Bismarck, at least by the time I got a modem and joined. (Probably because it had been superceded by SSI's "second wave" of better-produced titles in 1981: Grigsby's Guad Campaign, Dan Bunten's Computer QB, Paul Murray's Warp Factor, etc.). But it's resemblance to AH's "Bismarck" was clear. The map covered the same area; It even included the special VP's for damaging convoy WS8B, which was in a variant published in the AH General for their boardgame that added the convoys to the countermix to expand the scope and add a bit more history. (The Bismarck was now out to sink merchant shipping, instead of just fighting 1 or 2 British ships and then trying to make it back to Brest to win on VP's.) If I remember, Joel Billings first tried to interest Tom Shaw at AH to publish it (when AH was first thinking about making computer-game versions of its games), and got ignored, prompting him to form SSI instead, just to get CB out on the shelves!

Too bad SSI's not around (except as a Ubisoft badge) anymore. They were cutting-edge, and every year brought a brand-new wave of games that just kept getting better and better. Matrix is definitely their spiritual successor, though. I'm glad to see they're adding all kinds of different genres and complexity-levels to their line-up this year. Keeps things fresh, and lets me buy a huge variety of playstyles.

Def Zep,
 
Do you have copies of those BBS transcripts, or would they be archived anywhere?  I would be interesting in reading all the details.
 
Glad to find someone who enjoyed Computer Ambush as much as I did.
 
Regards,
 
bink

Hi bink,

Unfortunately not. I've seen archives of other newsgroups (Usenet and Yahoo groups), but GEnie seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur.

Would be interesting to see them again, though! [:'(] It's been years since I read them, and it'd be a real trip down memory lane.

I still remember getting my first modem: 300 baud, on a green-phosphor screen. I was absolutely fascinated that there were other wargamers out there in cyberspace, posting their thoughts on games I had myself, and the designers joining them! For a while, GEnie was the place for "conflict simulations", too. Practically every wargame popped up for discussion there. You could read until 2 or 3 in the morning, and have a whole 'nother page of threads the next evening!

Computer Ambush:

I really liked the different weapons each soldier had, and the write-ups the rulebook gave them.

My favorite was "Big Ol" Hoss, because he reminded me of one of my gaming friends down at UVA. I also liked Dieter Dusel, because you could make shots with his 98K nobody else could. In the Church Defense scenario, I'd stick him in 43,46 and he could pick people off coming out of building F11 or the Government Offices. I could then move into those with a section and flank the town center monument at F1. That usually let me last the timepoints and win the engagement.