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*** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:55 pm
by Warfare1
I was just wondering what WWII documentaries my fellow wargamers would recommend.
New war movies are few and far between, so I am looking for some great documentaries to watch during the summer months.
I hear that World at War is good. However, when I read up on it, mention was made that it is biased: ie more attention is placed on British actions vs American ones. So that Patton is never mentioned and that the Pacific war is given short treatment. Is this a fair assessment?
Thanks.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:27 pm
by Hertston
ORIGINAL: Warfare1
However, when I read up on it, mention was made that it is biased: ie more attention is placed on British actions vs American ones. So that Patton is never mentioned and that the Pacific war is given short treatment. Is this a fair assessment?
With regard to bias I'm tempted to say "that would be a refreshing change". [;)]
I can't remember that much about it, although it is certainly a British produced series and you wouldn't expect under-representation. The war did start a little earlier for the Brits, though! There was a whole episode on Burma, for example, which you wouldn't have got in a US version, but I don't recall the Pacific being given 'short treatment' (the Brits fought the Japanese too, amazingly enough). There were at least a couple of episodes on the Pacific, the Burma one apart, and there was one on the Japan/China war, too.
I don't remember about Patton's inclusion or otherwise, I'm afraid. It would certainly seem a bit odd if he was left out.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:36 pm
by JamesM
World at War is the best WWII documentary ever made. It gives a balanced view that was and is quite refreshing.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:53 pm
by KG Erwin
The "Battlefield" series is pretty good. As a matter of fact, the Guadalcanal episode can be seen on You Tube: start here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOXHiFi5 ... ed&search=
For Pacific-themed documentaries, I also recommend "Heroes of Iwo Jima", which is included in the Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima box set. This is narrated by Marine vet Gene Hackman, and it gives a full accounting of the two flag raisings on Feb. 23. See
http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Flags-Fat ... B000P1XITE
Another I have is "The Bloody Hills of Peleliu", an excellent History Channel documentary which is also available thru Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Century-Blood ... B000E371V4
Another video online is the USMC documentary "With The Marines At Tarawa". See
http://www.archive.org/details/WiththeMarinesatTarawa
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:43 pm
by Adam Parker
Hi Warfare 1,
The boxed version is superb value. This is a series that you'll watch over and again.
Professionally made and edited (no King Tigers here breaking across France in 1940), there are 5 full episodes covering the war with Japan alone. Importantly. there's no waffle or repetition used my many latter series to fill time. World at War sets the benchmark till this day just as Ken Burns would later do with the 19th Century.
I'd say the series' strength is its well spread focus across all combatants. There are episodes exploring the war experience and rise of Germany, Britain, USSR, Japan and the USA.
It's focus on the East Front is as gripping as the Desert, the Atalntic, the Bombing Campaign, the West and the Pacific.
Further, the boxed set is chock full of extra documentaries, if that was at all possible.
First time around, I'd recommend watching each episode in order as its wholistic impact is astounding. The series then becomes a comfortable friend for re-watches of areas wishing to be studied. As for the Pacific, it's where I learned the cry "Banzai!".
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:55 am
by Warfare1
ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Warfare1
However, when I read up on it, mention was made that it is biased: ie more attention is placed on British actions vs American ones. So that Patton is never mentioned and that the Pacific war is given short treatment. Is this a fair assessment?
With regard to bias I'm tempted to say "that would be a refreshing change". [;)]
I can't remember that much about it, although it is certainly a British produced series and you wouldn't expect under-representation. The war did start a little earlier for the Brits, though! There was a whole episode on Burma, for example, which you wouldn't have got in a US version, but I don't recall the Pacific being given 'short treatment' (the Brits fought the Japanese too, amazingly enough). There were at least a couple of episodes on the Pacific, the Burma one apart, and there was one on the Japan/China war, too.
I don't remember about Patton's inclusion or otherwise, I'm afraid. It would certainly seem a bit odd if he was left out.
Many thanks for the reply.
The British do know how to make documentaries. [&o]
Here is the Amazon.com link. Most reviews are very favourable:
http://www.amazon.com/World-War-30th-An ... 17-1992120
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:58 am
by Warfare1
ORIGINAL: jamesm
World at War is the best WWII documentary ever made. It gives a balanced view that was and is quite refreshing.
Thanks. That seems to be the general consensus.
I note that Chapters.ca is offering all 26 episodes of WaW for about $90.00. That's about the same price as the Sopranos Season 6 part one.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:01 am
by Warfare1
KG Erwin:
Thanks for the links.
I remember seeing some episodes of the Battlefield series many moons ago on PBS. Excellent series.
Pity the dvds aren't offered in North America.
Battlefield Links:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battlefield-1/d ... 820&sr=1-2
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:04 am
by Warfare1
ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Hi Warfare 1,
The boxed version is superb value. This is a series that you'll watch over and again.
Professionally made and edited (no King Tigers here breaking across France in 1940), there are 5 full episodes covering the war with Japan alone. Importantly. there's no waffle or repetition used my many latter series to fill time. World at War sets the benchmark till this day just as Ken Burns would later do with the 19th Century.
I'd say the series' strength is its well spread focus across all combatants. There are episodes exploring the war experience and rise of Germany, Britain, USSR, Japan and the USA.
It's focus on the East Front is as gripping as the Desert, the Atalntic, the Bombing Campaign, the West and the Pacific.
Further, the boxed set is chock full of extra documentaries, if that was at all possible.
First time around, I'd recommend watching each episode in order as its wholistic impact is astounding. The series then becomes a comfortable friend for re-watches of areas wishing to be studied. As for the Pacific, it's where I learned the cry "Banzai!".
Thanks Adam for the reply.
It does sound like a solid series to get, and although not every documentary can be wholly complete, it does sound like quite a feat to capture all of WWII.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:09 am
by KG Erwin
Is this the series that was narrated by Laurence Olivier back in the early 70s? Yeah, it's OK, but subsequent research has made the more recent docs more worthwhile. I have several of those episodes on VHS.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:25 am
by Warfare1
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Is this the series that was narrated by Laurence Olivier back in the early 70s? Yeah, it's OK, but subsequent research has made the more recent docs more worthwhile. I have several of those episodes on VHS.
That's the one. Apparently, many of the people interviewed are now dead.
In addition, once more WWII documents were released in later years, it appears some things in the series weren't quite spot on.
Still, I haven't seen anything so comprehensive on WWII being offered.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:30 am
by Warfare1
Hold on.
While I was doing some digging I came across this:
Ken Burns is doing a 15 hour series on WWII that will be aired on PBS in September 2007. If it's anything like his Civil War series, it should be worth watching.
Links:
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.js ... Id=2784344
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs ... 30354/1031
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:52 am
by Adam Parker
ORIGINAL: Warfare1
Ken Burns is doing a 15 hour series on WWII that will be aired on PBS in September 2007.
It looks like this one will be a limited focus on the "American Experience" using the home-stories of some scattered towns as litmus in an effort to put the likes of Studs Terkel and Ambrose's "Citizen Soldiers" on screen.
One can sense an intent to recreate the spirit of the WW2 "Over There", with the need to educate the US public for further sacrifice in Iraq/The Stans.
Alternately he may go the opposite route, seeing his outrage at the waste of life and focus on death in the Civil War, by reinforcing the lesson that the US WW2 experience had a definable end goal, whereas the "War on Terror" seemingly has none ie: how much should the sacrifice endure?
That will be interesting to see.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:45 am
by Neilster
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Is this the series that was narrated by Laurence Olivier back in the early 70s? Yeah, it's OK, but subsequent research has made the more recent docs more worthwhile. I have several of those episodes on VHS.
Very little of this series has been made out of date by subsequent research. There is no mention of Enigma but apart from that, the analysis is basically spot on. This is quite possibly the most important documentary series ever made and has received consistently glowing reviews. Given that the vast majority of American-made WW2 documentaries are outrageously ethnocentric, you'll appreciate its broad perspective. The research is first class and the narration is a triumph. Mate, if you don't get it, you're on the drugs.
Cheers, Neilster
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:32 am
by JudgeDredd
The World at War is the only WWII documentary.
Seriously though, it is awesome. I'm trying to think back and remember if there was any bias, and I'm tempted to say there may well have been, from what I can recollect.
It's hard to say if it's bias though from what I recollect.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:56 am
by KG Erwin
ORIGINAL: Neilster
... Given that the vast majority of American-made WW2 documentaries are outrageously ethnocentric...
Here we go with the inevitable American bashing. Thanks, Neilster, you'll undoubtedly succeed in getting this thread locked soon.
BTW, you're welcome for we Yanks keeping the rump of the British Empire alive during the WWII years. [8|]
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:23 am
by Neilster
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
ORIGINAL: Neilster
... Given that the vast majority of American-made WW2 documentaries are outrageously ethnocentric...
Here we go with the inevitable American bashing. Thanks, Neilster, you'll undoubtedly succeed in getting this thread locked soon.
BTW, you're welcome for we Yanks keeping the rump of the British Empire alive during the WWII years. [8|]
It's not American bashing. For whatever reason American documentary makers gloss over everybody else's contribution to Allied victory. That's just a fact (as has been alluded to above by others) and is no slight on Americans in general. The British are simply the best documentary makers.
I'm the first to acknowledge the massive U.S. contribution in WW2 and made no comment disparaging it, so your last point is unjustified.
Cheers, Neilster
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:16 pm
by Ironclad
ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
The World at War is the only WWII documentary.
Seriously though, it is awesome. I'm trying to think back and remember if there was any bias, and I'm tempted to say there may well have been, from what I can recollect.
It's hard to say if it's bias though from what I recollect.
I wasn't that impressed with the World at War series, mainly because of its failure to give sufficient coverage to the eastern front.
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:01 pm
by Neilster
ORIGINAL: Ironclad
ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
The World at War is the only WWII documentary.
Seriously though, it is awesome. I'm trying to think back and remember if there was any bias, and I'm tempted to say there may well have been, from what I can recollect.
It's hard to say if it's bias though from what I recollect.
I wasn't that impressed with the World at War series, mainly because of its failure to give sufficient coverage to the eastern front.
Yeah, I thought there could have been some more but the series was made in the early 70s when the Soviet Union was a grudging participant in Western documentary making. At the time, it was lauded for its radical emphasis on the importance of the Eastern Front, so it just goes to show how times have changed. Off the top of my head the episodes dealing with the Eastern Front were Barbarossa, Stalingrad, Red Star, Pincers and Nemesis. The last 2 also had Western and Italian Front action as well but it's a reasonable amount of material.
Cheers, Neilster
RE: *** World War II Documentaries ***
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:40 pm
by JudgeDredd
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
BTW, you're welcome for we Yanks keeping the rump of the British Empire alive during the WWII years. [8|]
KG
Normally I'm on your side with a fair few arguments on these boards, but you are out of order there, my friend.
You weren't the only "...keep the rump of the British Empire alive" during WWII. There were plenty of British that died for the cause also.
And as Neilster said...he didn't disparage the actual input by the Americans during either war, or indeed any other conflict. What he did allude to was the fact that alot of US documentaries are biased.
If you fail to distinguish between media propaganda effort and real life effort, then that's your lookout...not anyone elses.