Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Exinfernis
Vexing point A: Bangkok - I have 180k troops in there, Vs 35K Japs. Fatigue/disruption levels ok (below 50). Experience over 80 on average. Rangoon/Moulmein/Tavoy/Victoria Point host nearly 2k planes, laying waste to everything for months. I initially bombarded the city defenders for some turns , then launched shock attacks. I managed to knock off an entrenchment level (by fluke?) and since then zip. I have artillery aplenty, numerous engineer formations and 6 armored battalions. All leaders are of sufficient land skill and aggression levels. The japs are in supply though, and in growing desperation, I dispatched a salient force to cross the river and cutt off their supply lines. However, it takes ages. A good 48 tuns still.

Every turn, nearly a thousand planes target Bangkok (noth airfield and ground attacks). Is there something I should have done to give me the edge? Like targetting the port facilities? Or cutting their supplies lines is the only way to go?

ORIGINAL: wdolson

This is one of my pet peeves with ground combat. Except on atolls, units that are isolated become virtually invincible until their AV drops to 0, then they get killed off like flies. I've had large pockets of Japanese troops that took months to eliminate. Once isolated and out of supply, they shouldn't last more than a week.

I have seen this same pattern several times. It's a problem with the land combat engine.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Hi guys,

Thanks for your responses. The terrain in question is clear and the Japanese units are unable to retreat as I have occupied every hex around them. I know the Japanese were pretty resilient but after 6 months siege without food, they would have capitulated by now, and a shock attack causes 168 casualties with about 3 1/2 division attacking, hhhmmm not much of an assault. I have read previously on this forum the Chinese have performed these super human feats as well, its just not realistic.

Mark

ORIGINAL: wdolson

This is one of my pet peeves with ground combat. Except on atolls, units that are isolated become virtually invincible until their AV drops to 0, then they get killed off like flies. I've had large pockets of Japanese troops that took months to eliminate. Once isolated and out of supply, they shouldn't last more than a week.

I have seen this same pattern several times. It's a problem with the land combat engine.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Reg
How long was the Gona campaign???

The Japanese forces were cut off, out of supply and surounded but took considerably longer than a week to be eliminated. (I was going to say capitulate but they didn't).

ORIGINAL: dtravel

There is no rational explanation.  And don't use shock attacks unless you are using a lot of armor LCUs and are planning on pursuing so your opponent can complain about the other gameness of the ground combat system.

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: wdolson

This is one of my pet peeves with ground combat. Except on atolls, units that are isolated become virtually invincible until their AV drops to 0, then they get killed off like flies. I've had large pockets of Japanese troops that took months to eliminate. Once isolated and out of supply, they shouldn't last more than a week.

I have seen this same pattern several times. It's a problem with the land combat engine.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Reg
How long was the Gona campaign???

The Japanese forces were cut off, out of supply and surounded but took considerably longer than a week to be eliminated. (I was going to say capitulate but they didn't).

The battle for Buna/Gona took about three months, but the Allied troops consisted of some highly experienced, but badly depleted Australian units and one poorly equipped and poorly prepared American division.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww2/gona-buna-san.htm

I don't know when along that time line the Buna base would qualify as being captured. For most of those three months the Japanese still held onto what would be a base in game terms. I would expect that their situation detriorated pretty quickly once Buna base fell.

The Japanese also held onto Guadalcanal for almost six months, but the Tokyo Express was getting enough supply through to keep the troops alive (barely) and the American troops were both very inexperienced and poorly equipped for much of the campaign.

The game doesn't appear to interpret 0 supply the same way I would. If a unit has 0 supply, that means that it is not only out of food, but out of ammo too. Any kind of attack should result in huge casualties since all they have to defend themselves with are bayonettes.

It is completely unrealistic for 1000 AV of experienced troops to attack an isolated pocket of resistance low on supplies, get 10:1 or better odds and the enemy only take a handful of casualties and the attacking troops take 3 times more. Especially if this goes on for a while. The defending troops would start losing combat effectiveness as soon as their supplies began to get low, this would further decrease after several days of fighting. Without the facilities of a town for support, they would have to set up field hospitals in the open, which would turn a lot of non-mortal wounds into life threatening situations. Fatigue for the troops would also increase dramatically since nobody is able to sleep indoors and they are in constant combat, knowing that the end is approaching.

When supply hits zero, troops should start dropping in droves from starvation and they would have nothing to shoot back with, so enemy attacks would wipe them out in huge numbers.

In the real war, the Japanese would bonzai charge when they got to critical supply levels. They would go out in a blaze of glory. I have heard that some people have seen it, but I have yet to see it and I have conducted a lot of ground combat against the AI in mainland Asia. I frequently envelope and trap large pockets of enemy troops. I've always had to grind them down to 0 AV before I could get rid of them. I did once leave a pocket of isolated troops alone for 6 months or so while I fought other battles. When I brought in a Chinese death star to knock them out, they didn't last very long.

Most of the time Japanese hold out for months against huge forces. Right now I'm pouring troops into Tsieten trying to wipe out a pocket there (my troops hold the base). I have 9000 AV there vs 400 and the Allies take 3000 casualties an attack to the Japanese taking about 1000. This has been going on for close to a month game time and the enemy AV has barely dropped at all.

Bill