Matrix Games Forums

Playing TCP/IP with 1.02 last night and Germany takes Denmark, but a French ship sits in Copenhagen quite happily.....moreover it can actually repair itself there (I was the allies - didn't take that particular cheese) - I thought this had been solved?

I had the same thing but once I moved the port changed to the Axis.  This gives you the opportunity to destroy the ship but since it is French not worth the trouble.

Yeah but the French ship was blocking the German attempt to invade Norway, & he could only attack it with 1 land unit (& a sub & BB), so it could have been really annoying, and presumably it can happen with other ports too??

Uhm, stops Norway with a French BB.  I like that.  I wonder where else that useless tidbit could be useful.

Can't recall off hand whether the Gibralter port blocks passage of the straits - that could be one?  Maybe also Istanbul if you're that way inclined - all pretty marginal, but silly IMO.

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Can't recall off hand whether the Gibralter port blocks passage of the straits - that could be one?  Maybe also Istanbul if you're that way inclined - all pretty marginal, but silly IMO.

Certainly not silly. Thet was one of the purposes of holding Gibraltar, it blocked access to and from the Med for the axis navies. Having the Italian navy operating in the Atlantic would be sillier, it was not a 'deep water' navy and not designed for atlantic opertions? Of course if the RN is driven out of Gib you have access.

Istanbul even more so, the Bosphorus is only a mile or so wide, we even have a bridge over it now.

Dave

So Gibralter should continue to block the Italian fleet if it is occupied by the Germans??

It does not block the Italian fleet when Gibraltar is occupied by Germany.  What happens is that if a Port is captured, but you have a ship there - the ship can stay but the port belongs to you.  The solution to this is to blow up the ships with land units.  It is fairly effective.  Follow up with your BB or some subs if you need to clear out the French ship quickly.

I am glad to see this enemy repairing in your newly captured ports are not my imagination. I have seen this occur several times and find it frustrating to damge a ship and it sits there and repairs in MY PORT! Never really thought about the other thing where they block movement too. Bad glitch since the reason you grab a certain port is usually to a: deny it to the enemy. haha... or b: to move to another area previously unreachable. This glitch can be a nusiance, but not exactly a game breaker IMO. Hope it gets resolved.
 
One idea I have is to have an automatic kick the enemy out of the port when the port changes sides. If there is no space to move out then it should be destroyed. No exceptions. I don't think in reality when you are forcing the way to an enemy port that any ships in the harbor would hang around until the port is captured, they would have sailed away long before that.

yeah the repairing part is real stupid.  I agree they should actually be automatically ejected.

I don't think in reality when you are forcing the way to an enemy port that any ships in the harbor would hang around until the port is captured, they would have sailed away long before that

.

I disagree with you. There are some reasons a ship can't sail away when it want to do this, e.g. "cold engines", repairing underway. I think it would be realistic that the crew is going to sink it's own ship when threatend by enemy forces. If the attack from enemy forces surprising the crew then there should be a chance to capture the ships.

Also slitherine should do the following if a port is captured with ships inside:
- a great chance that the ship is sunk by own crew -> 70%
- a chance that the ship is sunk by own crew but can be refitted by enemy forces -> 20%, the ship should have only one point in strength
- a little chnace the enemy will capture the ship undamaged -> 10%

This would be realtistic.

How much of a surprise can it be to a ships crew if you're driving on a front toward a port with several corps and many weeks before you grab the port? How could the engines be cold in this case? It's not like you're "suddenly" appearing there. I can see if a ship has damaged engines "in reality" but in this game even a strength 1 ship can sail full speed. So in the end I don't buy the cold engines theory. Although I can see what you're saying about the crew scuttling the ship if there were no alternative like moving away as the port is actually captured. The idea about the chances of scuttling or capture are a great idea! Originally I was of the mindset that the ship would be ejected from the port unless there were no unoccupied sea zones next to it, in wich case destroy it. Maybe in this case it could possibly be captured if it cannot eject? Like you say 20% damaged 10% undamaged otherwise destroyed. I wonder if the chance might be better regarding capture since sinking your own ship in a port would mean it is not at the bottom of the ocean, but in maybe 30 or 50 feet of water and can be salvaged assuming the damage isn't too great like a magazine explosion for example.
 
What do you think Bigfish?

Hi,

i think no crew with a free mind will scuttling it's own ship by blowing up the magazin within a harbor because it is too dangerous. There is a good chance killing too many citizens. Normaly i think every warship does have tide valves (?). You write down the reason why it is a sad thing scuttling ships in a harbor because water is tight. The ship could by refitted by the enemy.

Also think about a hand caper (?) by airborne rangers when ground forces still on the run straight toward the port but enough miles away so they does not seem to be dangerous. Another option is that the ground forces still moving to another direction in an attempt of deception and only a few special forces going to capture the port. Scuttling a ship needs time for prepairing and execution - the chance of capturing enemy ships might be complicated but not impossible. Western Europe is pretty not a far country. Rolling with armoured vehicles from germany to belgium or holland needs only hours not weeks! Especailly after receiving the decleration of war war those countries would not be able to fight back or stop a well trained army. Think of duncerque!

For the game a chance of 10% capturing enemy vessels is quit a wonderful thing. [:D]


Also think of duncerque - it would be pretty nice playing a wargame with the option to evacute your forces by see transport. This would be a wonderul thing if you invades a country by an amphibious assault but can't build a bridge head.

greets
Bigfish

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

It does not block the Italian fleet when Gibraltar is occupied by Germany.  What happens is that if a Port is captured, but you have a ship there - the ship can stay but the port belongs to you.  The solution to this is to blow up the ships with land units.  It is fairly effective.  Follow up with your BB or some subs if you need to clear out the French ship quickly.

It was a French ship, and he did use a U-boat and his BB, and every time I got a hit on him it was a bonus....then I could repair - hell it's only the French.......and it was tying up a heap of his resources.......I thought it wa agreat trade!!

it's the ability to repair that is silly!

A good example of trying to capture ships is German attempt to capture the Vichy French fleet at Toulon - they got only small vessels, mostly sabotaged.  Several submarines escaped, and every major warship was effectively destroyed - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling_of_the_French_fleet_in_Toulon#Operation_Lila
 
And this was a surprise attack on ships that had only partial crews - in one case it seems the Germans managed to board a vessel and close the sea cocks, but the captain then ordered charges to be lit with shortened fuses, and everyone fled in a hurry!!