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Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:10 pm
by TheTomDude
In my actual game I have 2 former carrier airgroups which diverted to a land base after their carriers have been badly damaged in battle. The carriers both survived and have been repaired at the japanese homeland. While getting repairs they re-built their airgroups but the fragments of the old airgroups are still on the islands in the pacific.
So I have a few questions:
1) Since I cannot upgrade the planes in those 2 airgroups and they get more and more out-dated should I disband/withdraw them to get two new functional airgroups in 90 days?
2) While doing #1 WILL they even come back as a totally new airgroup or will they drop out of the game since there are 2 active airgroups with that name already on the repaired carrier?
3) What happens if I disband them into those newly airgroups on the carriers? Will this paradoxon end in a "this-is-the-end-of-the-world"-effect because there cannot be two airgroups with the same name in the game?
4) Should I just use them until their planes and/or pilots are expended (because they do not seem to get any replacements/reinforcements.
5) I think I messed it up with not bringing them to the homeland after the battle. I guess this way they could have rejoined the other fragment still on the carriers. So what should one normally do with those fragments?
thx
Tom
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:05 pm
by Oliver Heindorf
hmm, I cannot answer your quesations becasue I followed one simple rule :
NEVER EVER MOVE CARRIER AIR GROUPS OFF THEIR CARRIERS.
I am sure rtrpasso (sp?) can help you or some others here around. patience, tiny little grasshopper [:D] .
I know that taking off airgroups from their carriers will only lead to trouble ( for example : an Airgroup with 99 planes etc.)
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:31 pm
by Rainer
It's not that simple, Oliver.
Our Swiss friend had the air groups diverted from damaged carriers by the program (he did not move them himself).
This is something no player can prevent from happening.
The real trouble is that the split up goups now in existence are not handled well by the program.
Alas, I also cannot provide advice AFTER the split up has happened.
I only know how to prevent several "independent" air groups to come into existence.
ALL air groups (not only those on carriers) MUST be set to receive NO replacements.
If this rule is obeserved groups will not grow. They can be recombined (actually will do that on their own when close enough), and no troublesome things will happen.
The bad news: when the groups have already split up I don't know the cure
Bad news2: the player constantly has to check which air groups are in need of replacements because of operational or battle losses (MORE micro management).
PS: Tom, can't you go back a couple of turns to the state where the groups had not yet diverted from those damaged carriers? If so, set the groups to "Replacements NO" and you'll be fine. If your game is PBEM your opponent has to agree, of course.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:11 pm
by Oliver Heindorf
ORIGINAL: Rainer
It's not that simple, Oliver.
Our Swiss friend had the air groups diverted from damaged carriers by the program (he did not move them himself).
sorry mate I missed that one.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:34 pm
by TheTomDude
ORIGINAL: Rainer
It's not that simple, Oliver.
Our Swiss friend had the air groups diverted from damaged carriers by the program (he did not move them himself).
This is something no player can prevent from happening.
The real trouble is that the split up goups now in existence are not handled well by the program.
Alas, I also cannot provide advice AFTER the split up has happened.
I only know how to prevent several "independent" air groups to come into existence.
ALL air groups (not only those on carriers) MUST be set to receive NO replacements.
If this rule is obeserved groups will not grow. They can be recombined (actually will do that on their own when close enough), and no troublesome things will happen.
The bad news: when the groups have already split up I don't know the cure
Bad news2: the player constantly has to check which air groups are in need of replacements because of operational or battle losses (MORE micro management).
PS: Tom, can't you go back a couple of turns to the state where the groups had not yet diverted from those damaged carriers? If so, set the groups to "Replacements NO" and you'll be fine. If your game is PBEM your opponent has to agree, of course.
Unfortunately going back is not an option cause it happened a few gametime months ago. [:D]
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:07 pm
by dtravel
ORIGINAL: TheTomDude
In my actual game I have 2 former carrier airgroups which diverted to a land base after their carriers have been badly damaged in battle. The carriers both survived and have been repaired at the japanese homeland. While getting repairs they re-built their airgroups but the fragments of the old airgroups are still on the islands in the pacific.
So I have a few questions:
1) Since I cannot upgrade the planes in those 2 airgroups and they get more and more out-dated should I disband/withdraw them to get two new functional airgroups in 90 days?
2) While doing #1 WILL they even come back as a totally new airgroup or will they drop out of the game since there are 2 active airgroups with that name already on the repaired carrier?
3) What happens if I disband them into those newly airgroups on the carriers? Will this paradoxon end in a "this-is-the-end-of-the-world"-effect because there cannot be two airgroups with the same name in the game?
4) Should I just use them until their planes and/or pilots are expended (because they do not seem to get any replacements/reinforcements.
5) I think I messed it up with not bringing them to the homeland after the battle. I guess this way they could have rejoined the other fragment still on the carriers. So what should one normally do with those fragments?
thx
Tom
First off, in earlier versions of the program there are bugs with getting air units back on to and merged with their home carriers so make sure you are patched up.
Next, are those orphaned air units the actual parent unit? Or do they have a /1 or /2 at the end of their names? If they are the actual parent unit, then no, a "new" copy of the unit will not appear. If they are fragment units (the /1, /2 referred to above), then all you really can do with them is somehow move them back to the base or carrier their parent unit is at and the program
should automatically merge them back together. You may need to wait a turn or two if the parent unit is on the carrier. (Note: You can
not disband or withdraw carrier-based air units, including their fragments. Those buttons are greyed out.)
If that doesn't work, then I would suggest moving carrier and air unit fragment both to a base that has the Theatre HQ the base is assigned to present and 20K+ supplies (same conditions as for the automatic carrier group changes).
Personally, I would strenously
not recommend intentionally using the fragments as normal air units. Given the program functions to automatically try rejoining fragments with parents and the hard-coding affecting carrier based air units I think you would just be begging to get smacked around by bugs and strange results.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:17 am
by rogueusmc
I don't think a group can be withdrawn or disbanded if there is fragments anyway can it?
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:34 am
by bbbf
The best way I know to handle recalcitrant fragments is to upgrade the parent unit.
This automatically draws all the pilots in from the fragment - wherever they may be.
The downside is you will lose whatever planes were present in the fragment, but that is generally no big deal.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:43 am
by rogueusmc
With one of the last couple of patches, the game won't let you upgrade if you have fragments.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:43 am
by TheTomDude
ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
With one of the last couple of patches, the game won't let you upgrade if you have fragments.
Correct. As I already wrote in my original post "Since I cannot upgrade the planes in those 2 airgroups and they get more and more out-dated ...".
So let's see:
- I cannot disband or withdraw it
- I cannot upgrade it
- I cannot/should not put it on an other carrier (i.e. a CVE)
- I should not use it as a regular airgroup
To me the only thing I can do is put it as far away on the map as possible where there's no action and where there is no carrier it could try to merge with and then forget about it. Did I miss something? I mean there is not one way to handle with these computer built fragments? It's even theatening the stability and integritiy of the program? Can I use them as kamikazes at least to get rid of them?
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:49 am
by Barb
Why do you dont try to join the parrent units?
In my PBEM i have lost SARA, and VF-3/2 unit landed in pearl with some 12 wildcats and pilots in 80s experiences.
I cannot, disband, withdraw the units, upgrade/downgrade so i will try to wait until the new SARA come into game and then i will try to merge the units together... i hope it will be possible
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:28 am
by bbbf
ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
With one of the last couple of patches, the game won't let you upgrade if you have fragments.
Still working in my game under 1.806.
RE: Need advice on carrier airgroup
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:21 pm
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: bbbf
ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
With one of the last couple of patches, the game won't let you upgrade if you have fragments.
Still working in my game under 1.806.
Unless there is something different between CV airgroups and land based ones, this is correct. Move the planes off your carriers and upgrade them. Now, on the off chance that this doesnt work (and Im betting it does) simply fly the parent to a base, move the fragment to the same base and upgrade. One way or the other this WILL work.