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I've seen some AARs where Russia surrendered, so I know folks can do it, but I always have a horrible time with them as a CP player. What's the secret?

My usual experience is that from 1914 until mid 1915 the Russians don't do much because they're short of refits and slowly railing their army to the front. After that though, they just grind the willies out of me. Even after I've forced France to surrender and moved the entire German army to the Russian border along with most of the Austrians, I'm still getting wrecked by Russian hordes and Russian morale seems pegged on excellent while mine just keeps dropping.

Is there some secret I'm missing?

My experiance is limited to fighting the AI but I have been able to get them to surrender. You need to take cities from them and kill them. While the Russians begin with a lot of replacements after they are gone they have little to spend and a lot to buy. Take all the cities in the Warsaw bulge, get them to exhuastion level 1 and you are on your way.

I assume you are talking about playing against a human opponent ?

If the purple peril don't do anything until summer 1915 then you are very lucky indeed [X(]

Warfare on the Eastern front is different than war in the west. CP must defend concentrated in favorable defensive terrain to avoid attrition. Especially the fortresses are great for that because you are in supply so long the permanent fortification remains and Russia can't get siege artillery until spring 1915. Just remember to stack a HQ with your soon to be beleaguered troops. Their only purpose is to give you a decent springboard for a major offensive against Russia.

If you can maintain a decent starting position a drive SE from Prussia and NE from Galicia to meet around BrestLitovsk will get you a long way. A second and equally important drive is east towards Riga and Minsk.

You must strive to get Russian morale below 20 in order to hopefully trigger a revolution. A combination of taking enough cities, starvation by lack of food and conquest of Entente countries should ensure that in most games.

You can' count on taking down France but should be able to do that with Russia in most games - unless you wait too long abandoning your offensive in France of course [;)]

Well...

The wily TE player will try to trade land for time, delaying the CP with cavalry, avoiding general battle and concentrate on defending high value hexes.

It's not so easy to take down Russia if the TE player knows what he is doing.

Ray (alias Lava)

Starvation is the real killer for the Russians. The will very quickly start losing 3-5 moral pr turns of you can take Poland away from them. On the other hand if they can stay in until the US enters and the Entente can get a supply line going just once to transfer the US starting stock of 72 food you will pretty much need to march to Petrograd to take out the Russians.

Actually one of the things that motivated me to write the game was I wanted to try von Moltke's strategy of Russia first because of their slow mobilization and the power the Russians would have if left alone to build up.  After all von Moltke did pretty well in 1866 and 1870, and I think he knew what he was doing.

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Actually one of the things that motivated me to write the game was I wanted to try von Moltke's strategy of Russia first because of their slow mobilization and the power the Russians would have if left alone to build up.  After all von Moltke did pretty well in 1866 and 1870, and I think he knew what he was doing.

Moltke had the advantage of both hindsight (US Civil War) and an indulgent Bismark.
He also realized that railroads had forever changed warfare.
The Younger had only Willy.

The French army will have somethign to say about it too....Germany has a lot of resources close to the border, and the French are perfectly capable of smashing through to get at them in 1914 and early 15.

Pat, in all the games I've played against the AI I have been unable to take out Russia if I follow a France first strategy. Leaving 3 unit stacks on the French front I deploy everything else to the east. With practice you can take out Russia by summer of 1915. Other strategies may work but I have three German thrusts from Prussia, one to Riga, one to Minsk, and one to Warsaw subsequently turning to Brest-Litovisk. AH needs only take 2-3 hexes north towards Warsaw (meeting the German southern thrust) during the August 1914 turn and you will bag some Russians in a pocket. AH may do a few spoiler attacks against Russian food hexes and send out some cavalry but in my strategy they are done offensively on the Eastern front after that as they can't afford a lot of resources there as they need to be dealing with Serbia so they can be free for Italy and Romania. The exception is using some AH HQ's for German offensives.

The secret to beating Russia early is to keep moving and keep casulaties low by attacking where they aren't. The AI moves things around a lot. If one impulse shows a wall of Russians in one sector attack in the others. By always attacking at good odds you destory their precious A level corps and limit your losses. Seize cities and resources quickly. Russia will teeter surprisingly fast if you can push them to level one of exhaustion and make them hungry. I cannot stress enough the goal of keeping casulaties low in the east. If France is hurling themselves against you the west will need all replacements to avoid a breakthrough. I use all four of my gas attacks against the French hordes to disrupt any offensives there. Also, you don't want to spend two years rebuilding the eastern army for duty in the west. I try to have at least 2-3 C level corps built by Russia's surrender so they get picked for eastern garrison duty. It is stressful to build that many early but having a couple more B corps spared from garrison that you can turn into assault troops later or hold the german/french border with can be quite useful. I've found two extra B level corps can make a big difference on the Italian front.

France will either attack without pause or sit there. In the first case they will be so exhausted by the time you swing forces west for a 1916 offensive they will melt away. In the other case it is a tougher slog but with the entire German army in the West except for a stiffening of the Italian front you will prevail by 1917 and celebrate in Paris. Typically at this point I am slightly over 1/2 on exhaustion level for both Germany and AH and have a 3:1 casualty advantage. I let the TE attack me losing 35 points to my 10 all day long. I am a big believer in the counter offensive strategy especially with this game. I never attack entrenched healthy stacks.

Good luck.

Chris

Chris

When RUssian falls in your games, is it due to the revolution, or regular surrender? Also, how many resources do you get after the surrender?

You get a lot of food resources - enough to never worry about that again but no raw material [:(]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

You get a lot of food resources - enough to never worry about that again but no raw material [:(]

Well, that's not very excitung. Is there another way For Germany to utilize its 25 industrial units? Just where are the RM's suppose to come from?

hjaco is right except I seem to get about 15-20 or so one time resource points the turn they surrender. Russia always surrender, I have only seen the revolution thing once in an early game. The food from Russia though is vital to Germany as they are in deficit without. Turkey does get some additional resources from a Russian surrender which they can send to Germany.

Thanks for the info-this is a horse of a different color-back to the planning board...