Matrix Games Forums

Would it be possible in a future patch to enable that formation window to be resized.

Would kinda look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/ ... mation.jpg

Except wider, and better.

It's annoying to have to scroll up and down all the time when setting up formation in a big carrier group.

edit - This could also be done to the Ready Aircraft window if possible.

Yeah, that or have the computer remember where the scroll slider was. That way when you reopen the window the slider is at the same spot as last time. Or just don't close the window in the first place.

Jim

I'd like those windows to be bigger and more flexible too, so I'll try and strong arm the programmer. [;)] Worst case scenario: he might tell me it can't be done. [8D]

The only "complaint" [;)] I have regarding the formation editor is that if you have a realistic plane load out on your carriers and support ships, you can't have a good CAP or ASW patrol. For instance, if you have 10 F/A 18Cs and 10 F/A 18Es you can only select the 'C' or the 'E' model to be on patrol. Will there ever be a way to resolve this?

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006
The only "complaint" [;)] I have regarding the formation editor is that if you have a realistic plane load out on your carriers and support ships, you can't have a good CAP or ASW patrol. For instance, if you have 10 F/A 18Cs and 10 F/A 18Es you can only select the 'C' or the 'E' model to be on patrol. Will there ever be a way to resolve this?

Not sure what you're saying here, Steve. But there is no reason why you can't launch two separate 'formation patrols' - one comprised of F/A-18C's and one of F/A-18E's - simultaneously.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. Sure you can "launch" any type you like. However, in your formation that the staff is controlling, if you have set up a CAP in your formation, they must always be of the exact same plane type. For instance, if I have a CVBG with one carrier and her escorts and I have 4 F-14Bs and 4 F-14Ds, I would have to select either my F-14B's or my F-14D's in the formation to be on CAP. The "staff" can't think, OK, all my F-14B's are being refueled or out of ammo, I'll launch my F-14D's in their place.
 
Does that make more sense as to what I mean?
 
thanks,
Steve

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006

Sorry I wasn't more clear. Sure you can "launch" any type you like. However, in your formation that the staff is controlling, if you have set up a CAP in your formation, they must always be of the exact same plane type. For instance, if I have a CVBG with one carrier and her escorts and I have 4 F-14Bs and 4 F-14Ds, I would have to select either my F-14B's or my F-14D's in the formation to be on CAP. The "staff" can't think, OK, all my F-14B's are being refueled or out of ammo, I'll launch my F-14D's in their place.

Does that make more sense as to what I mean?

thanks,
Steve

I think I understand this. You are saying that if you have 10 F-18Es and 10 F-18Fs on a carrier, all set to 'Intercept' you would like to see the ability of the AI to launch F-18Fs on patrols if all the F-18Es have already been launched?

I think we're gettting warmer. When I have a CVBG, I (like everyone else) set up my formation. I change the range circles, position my ships, then I set up my ASW aircraft, in the formation, to patrol certain areas, set up my AEW & EW to patrol and then I set up my CAP. Again, because I am not manually in charge of this during the running of the scenario, my staff is, if I only have a few of say F/A 18E's and the are on the CAP, if I use then up in either defending my CVBG or they've been recalled to refuel, the AI won't think to use the F/A18F's that have the same loadout to suppliment my CAP. Again all of this is set up in the formation editor so I'm not manually launching the CAP.

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006
I think we're gettting warmer. When I have a CVBG, I (like everyone else) set up my formation. I change the range circles, position my ships, then I set up my ASW aircraft, in the formation, to patrol certain areas, set up my AEW & EW to patrol and then I set up my CAP. Again, because I am not manually in charge of this during the running of the scenario, my staff is, if I only have a few of say F/A 18E's and the are on the CAP, if I use then up in either defending my CVBG or they've been recalled to refuel, the AI won't think to use the F/A18F's that have the same loadout to suppliment my CAP. Again all of this is set up in the formation editor so I'm not manually launching the CAP.

Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you'd like the Staff Assistant to be smart enough to launch aircraft of similar loadout to 'restock' your CAP, if the current CAP is depleted or destroyed ?

In a nutshell, yes. Only though if it were of a similar type. F/A-18C for F/A-18D for example. Not being a programmer at all, of course I have no idea what something like this would entail! [:)]

ORIGINAL: CV32
Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you'd like the Staff Assistant to be smart enough to launch aircraft of similar loadout to 'restock' your CAP, if the current CAP is depleted or destroyed ?

Yes! Yes yes yes. The earlier example of a carrier with 4 each F-14B and F-14D on board is a perfect example... sure would love to set a CAP that would include (say) 3 F-14s, any model will do, and would pull from all 8 available aircraft of the basic type, assuming similar loadout.

I realize this probably would require introducing a whole extra level of abstraction to the db structure, but, I think it would result in much greater operational realism. On a real carrier, I'd imagine they'd maintain whatever standing CAP they'd determined was appropriate without any great concern for mixing models?

Thanks for a great game!

I thought of a workaround for this one, until\if a solution is put in place by the development team.

Split your assignment of air patrols between your two types of F-14 aircraft, that way the AI should work its way through the aircraft but never run out of aircraft to be used (most of the time), you could even compromise by spreading the two types of F-14 in the formation based on their capabilities. With a little bit of ready reckoning you can probably guesstimate how many aircraft the AI will use and rotate in any one period of time.

Just a thought that might be helpful in the interim?

That's a great idea. However, in some of the scenarios posted, you may only have 2 to 4 of a certain type. As soon as they are used to defend your fleet, there is a "hole" in the protection.

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006

That's a great idea. However, in some of the scenarios posted, you may only have 2 to 4 of a certain type. As soon as they are used to defend your fleet, there is a "hole" in the protection.

I quite agree with you, the method I mentioned would of course have to be fit for purpose depending on the scenario you are quite right [:)]

Perhaps somewhat unrelated, but as an example of adapting to such things, the scenario that I am running at the moment GIUK 3.0

One of the surface groups has four helos, 2 of each of the following type:

2 x SH-60B - Long range, good radar, plenty of sonobouys

2 x Sea Sprite - Short range, fewer sonobouys, faster than SH-60's

I let the AI have 1 of the Sea Sprites which it can rotate without running out, positioned in the formation where I expect the a sub threat to appear (or the worst possible place for a sub to appear)

I control the 2 SH-60s planting hole plugging barriers at distance from my surface group but close enough for one Seasprite to run to from the formation and get a torp off if needs be. I return the SH-60's to my fleet the moment they have run out of sonobouys to keep a good rotation on the barrier which still leaves me the 1 seasprite in the air, or the one ready on deck to intercept a contact. This way I can keep loss of protection and detection for the shortest time possible

Erk perhaps im just rambling waffle, but thats just a current working example of using the formation editor and the game mechanics to get the result you need, without compromising protection when you have limited numbers of A/C

I hope I make some sort of sense lol! [8D]


edit - surface group not fleet.. doh..

ORIGINAL: Stalintc
Perhaps somewhat unrelated ...

I don't think its unrelated at all. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.

... but as an example of adapting to such things, the scenario that I am running at the moment GIUK 3.0

One of the surface groups has four helos, 2 of each of the following type:
2 x SH-60B - Long range, good radar, plenty of sonobouys
2 x Sea Sprite - Short range, fewer sonobouys, faster than SH-60's

I let the AI have 1 of the Sea Sprites which it can rotate without running out, positioned in the formation where I expect the a sub threat to appear (or the worst possible place for a sub to appear)

I control the 2 SH-60s planting hole plugging barriers at distance from my surface group but close enough for one Seasprite to run to from the formation and get a torp off if needs be. I return the SH-60's to my fleet the moment they have run out of sonobouys to keep a good rotation on the barrier which still leaves me the 1 seasprite in the air, or the one ready on deck to intercept a contact. This way I can keep loss of protection and detection for the shortest time possible

Erk perhaps im just rambling waffle, but thats just a current working example of using the formation editor and the game mechanics to get the result you need, without compromising protection when you have limited numbers of A/C I hope I make some sort of sense lol! [8D]

edit - surface group not fleet.. doh..

Well done, Stalintc. That's putting your best foot forward. [&o]

Oh sure. That really is very creative. OK... I'll admit it... I'm somewhat lazy and I want the "staff" to handle that part! [;)]

I added your wish to my wishlist .  While I don't think it will happen, it would still be a neat feature.
 
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=2081
 
 

ORIGINAL: CV32

Well done, Stalintc. That's putting your best foot forward. [&o]

Hehe cheers man [;)]

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006

Oh sure. That really is very creative. OK... I'll admit it... I'm somewhat lazy and I want the "staff" to handle that part! [;)]

Same here mate [:)]

At least it is on Tony's wishlist now[8D] so im glad we talked about it lol!

THANK YOU! [:D]

Well, I jumped into the reg editor to see if changing the values in the formation option would do anything.. nope.

Well, it does resize the window. It does not change the "clickables" size.