Matrix Games Forums

Just wanted to ask since Xmas is coming up, and in searching I only found one short old thread about "Best AI" so I don't think this is a repost...

I'm wondering what games on the site are the best for those of us who don't spend much time playing multiplayer or PBEM (or don't have the inclination to), games in which the AI can put up a decent enough fight to not be a pushover too quickly. I have a decent collection of games from Matrix as it is, and have really enjoyed the ones I've gotten around to digging deep into!

Here's what I've got so far:

Chariots of War
Legion Arena
Gates of Troy - Really like these three! Wish CoW would be updated to Gates of Troy's level though!

John Tiller's Campaign Series (these games got me into "real" wargaming back when they came out- all time favorites)
Steel Panthers: WaW General's Edition
The Operational Art of War III
Close Combat: Cross of Iron
Highway to the Reich (haven't really gotten into this one due to lack of interest in airborne ops, I've heard it has a great AI)
For Liberty
Forge of Freedom (haven't even scratched the surface of this one either)
Birth of America (haven't really scratched this one either- I buy too many games)
Massive Assault- Love this old game!


I was really leaning toward diving into War in the Pacific and not leaving my computer desk for a few months, but have heard the single player AI leaves a lot to be desired and have no inclination toward PBEM on this monster.

I'm also really leaning toward the Tin Soldiers games, Alexander and Caesar, but have heard both very postive and very negative AI comments and am wondering what the consensus is- Ancient/Classical period is my favorite by far!

Harpoon Commander's Edition and Carriers At War are likely candidates to be bought as well.

If anyone has any opinions on the above or any other games here that are fun to play alone, I'll appreciate them!

ORIGINAL: mlc82
I'm also really leaning toward the Tin Soldiers games, Alexander and Caesar, but have heard both very postive and very negative AI comments and am wondering what the consensus is- Ancient/Classical period is my favorite by far!

Just a brief comment - the Tin Soldiers AI is actually quite good and I find these to be highly enjoyable solo player games. I would start with Caesar and see if you like it.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: mlc82
I'm also really leaning toward the Tin Soldiers games, Alexander and Caesar, but have heard both very postive and very negative AI comments and am wondering what the consensus is- Ancient/Classical period is my favorite by far!

Just a brief comment - the Tin Soldiers AI is actually quite good and I find these to be highly enjoyable solo player games. I would start with Caesar and see if you like it.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks! Being myself if I go with them I'll likely just buy the whole set at once.

The best Matrixgames published game with the best AI is "Spartan" with volume 1.013 patch. Since it's backwards compatible you can download the 1.013 patch and put it over the 1.017 patch that is probably in the sold edition. Unfortunately you can't do this for Troy since it comes with 1.017 and is not backwards compatible with 1.013. Coming in 2nd would be the Tin Soldiers series Caesar as Erik said then Forge of Freedom Civil War game. Those are the bestest.

To give you an idea of how tough the AI is in Spartan, some people complained so much that the AI was too hard on EASY difficulty that the developers (Slitherene) actually dumbed it down for them in patch 1.017. I have the 1.013 version and it's excellent for challenge and with my own mod a real tough cookie to beat on highest or impossible difficulty levels.

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The best Matrixgames published game with the best AI is "Spartan" with volume 1.013 patch. Since it's backwards compatible you can download the 1.013 patch and put it over the 1.017 patch that is probably in the sold edition. Unfortunately you can't do this for Troy since it comes with 1.017 and is not backwards compatible with 1.013. Coming in 2nd would be the Tin Soldiers series Caesar as Erik said then Forge of Freedom Civil War game. Those are the bestest.

To give you an idea of how tough the AI is in Spartan, some people complained so much that the AI was too hard on EASY difficulty that the developers (Slitherene) actually dumbed it down for them in patch 1.017. I have the 1.013 version and it's excellent for challenge and with my own mod a real tough cookie to beat on highest or impossible difficulty levels.

I forgot to mention Spartan... I thought about getting this as well but seems like it would only be adding extra scenarios to Gates of Troy, of which I really only play the 1500BC monster campaign anyway. All the factions, units, features and etc seem like the same, and $20 is pretty steep for what seems like a scenario add on pack (of scenarios I probably wouldn't play except maybe another "grand campaign" map). Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

The better AI would be great, although the Gates of Troy AI hasn't been half bad either and has thrown me for some curves. It doesn't haven't me measuring every move I make as if it could destroy me completely, but I also don't feel like I'm just kicking it around such as in the Total War games.

The best AI on the market that will put up a fight you will enjoy is the Airborne Assault game engine including a game you already have, HTTR and Conquest of the Aegean.

While the initial focus of the game engine and the first games have been on airborne operations the next game in the series Battles from the Bulge will focus on ground combat between heavy forces.

If you really can't get onto the airborne scenarios of HTTR you might want to take a hard look at COTA. While it obviously includes quite a few scenarios of Crete and two hypothetical ones of Malta, it also includes a fair number of scenarios depicting combat between heavy units in the campaign in Greece. Trying to break through mountain passes with panzer divisions in definitely fun and it is also rather historically enlightening to attempt breaking through the Greeks in the mountains with the Italians.

Try reading my AAR of the Race for the Meuse scenario in the BFTB forum for an idea of how the scenarios play and what can be expected from the AI.

I can't recommend this game engine highly enough to do it justice.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The best AI on the market that will put up a fight you will enjoy is the Airborne Assault game engine including a game you already have, HTTR and Conquest of the Aegean.

While the initial focus of the game engine and the first games have been on airborne operations the next game in the series Battles from the Bulge will focus on ground combat between heavy forces.

If you really can't get onto the airborne scenarios of HTTR you might want to take a hard look at COTA. While it obviously includes quite a few scenarios of Crete and two hypothetical ones of Malta, it also includes a fair number of scenarios depicting combat between heavy units in the campaign in Greece. Trying to break through mountain passes with panzer divisions in definitely fun and it is also rather historically enlightening to attempt breaking through the Greeks in the mountains with the Italians.

Try reading my AAR of the Race for the Meuse scenario in the BFTB forum for an idea of how the scenarios play and what can be expected from the AI.

I can't recommend this game engine highly enough to do it justice.

I'm looking forward to the Bulge game... COTA looks interesting but my knowing absolutely nothing about the invasion of Crete/Malta in WWII kind of takes away from my enthusiasm to buy it. I'll add it to the list though, I forgot about this one.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Trying to break through mountain passes with panzer divisions in definitely fun and it is also rather historically enlightening to attempt breaking through the Greeks in the mountains with the Italians.

Thinking about First Clash at Veve scenario ? - a tough cookie ain't it ? [:D]

German panzers and panzergrenadiere versus Greek and ANZAC footsloggers

Ok, to answer the OP - best single player AI :

Conquest of the Aegean - hands down, no discussion [;)]

Also very good - in no particular order :

Forge of Freedom
World at War - a World Divided
Battlefront
Carriers at War
Tin Soldiers - Julius Caesar
Birth of America

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

mlc

I didn't know anything about the campaign in Greece and was very dubious about buying COTA, but the game is excellent. A great AI, beautiful maps and stunning gameplay.

I see you already have Forge of Freedom...don't let that slip away...it's an absolute gem of a game.

Good luck.

ORIGINAL: mlc82

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The best Matrixgames published game with the best AI is "Spartan" with volume 1.013 patch. Since it's backwards compatible you can download the 1.013 patch and put it over the 1.017 patch that is probably in the sold edition. Unfortunately you can't do this for Troy since it comes with 1.017 and is not backwards compatible with 1.013. Coming in 2nd would be the Tin Soldiers series Caesar as Erik said then Forge of Freedom Civil War game. Those are the bestest.

To give you an idea of how tough the AI is in Spartan, some people complained so much that the AI was too hard on EASY difficulty that the developers (Slitherene) actually dumbed it down for them in patch 1.017. I have the 1.013 version and it's excellent for challenge and with my own mod a real tough cookie to beat on highest or impossible difficulty levels.

I forgot to mention Spartan... I thought about getting this as well but seems like it would only be adding extra scenarios to Gates of Troy, of which I really only play the 1500BC monster campaign anyway. All the factions, units, features and etc seem like the same, and $20 is pretty steep for what seems like a scenario add on pack (of scenarios I probably wouldn't play except maybe another "grand campaign" map). Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

The better AI would be great, although the Gates of Troy AI hasn't been half bad either and has thrown me for some curves. It doesn't haven't me measuring every move I make as if it could destroy me completely, but I also don't feel like I'm just kicking it around such as in the Total War games.

Spartan actually came before GoT, didn't know it was a stand-alone. I usually end up playing the 400bc 'monster campaign' on it. IMHO Spartan is worth it. Nothing like seeing the Persian invasion for the first time.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

mlc

I didn't know anything about the campaign in Greece and was very dubious about buying COTA, but the game is excellent. A great AI, beautiful maps and stunning gameplay.

I see you already have Forge of Freedom...don't let that slip away...it's an absolute gem of a game.

Good luck.

Actually, the same is true for me with the exception of Crete. I played the heck out of Avalon Hill's old Crete/Malta combined game, but I never really played any games of the Greek land campaign, nor had I done much reading on the subject.

The scenarios in the ground campaign were very educational. The led me to want to do some reading on the subject.

And yes Eddy, I was thinking of First Clash at Veve, but also Spartans at the Pass. I found Spartans to be one of the most enjoyable scenarios I have played in the system to date. Mostly because it is one of those finely balanced scearios where it is fairly easy to get a marginal victory, but damn near impossible to get a decisive. The replay value alone, in trying new and different approaches in an efort to get that elusive decisive, meant I replayed that scenario more than I have with any other. Not to mention the appeal of a modern day battle at Thermopylea(sp?).

For best AI either COTA or BIL.  BIL has a ton of replaybility with a lot of scenarios and even more being developed.

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: mlc82

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The best Matrixgames published game with the best AI is "Spartan" with volume 1.013 patch. Since it's backwards compatible you can download the 1.013 patch and put it over the 1.017 patch that is probably in the sold edition. Unfortunately you can't do this for Troy since it comes with 1.017 and is not backwards compatible with 1.013. Coming in 2nd would be the Tin Soldiers series Caesar as Erik said then Forge of Freedom Civil War game. Those are the bestest.

To give you an idea of how tough the AI is in Spartan, some people complained so much that the AI was too hard on EASY difficulty that the developers (Slitherene) actually dumbed it down for them in patch 1.017. I have the 1.013 version and it's excellent for challenge and with my own mod a real tough cookie to beat on highest or impossible difficulty levels.

I forgot to mention Spartan... I thought about getting this as well but seems like it would only be adding extra scenarios to Gates of Troy, of which I really only play the 1500BC monster campaign anyway. All the factions, units, features and etc seem like the same, and $20 is pretty steep for what seems like a scenario add on pack (of scenarios I probably wouldn't play except maybe another "grand campaign" map). Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

The better AI would be great, although the Gates of Troy AI hasn't been half bad either and has thrown me for some curves. It doesn't haven't me measuring every move I make as if it could destroy me completely, but I also don't feel like I'm just kicking it around such as in the Total War games.

Spartan actually came before GoT, didn't know it was a stand-alone. I usually end up playing the 400bc 'monster campaign' on it. IMHO Spartan is worth it. Nothing like seeing the Persian invasion for the first time.

Oh I know that, I was referring to being able to "link" the two games together and combine scenarios if you own both. The Gates of Troy game IIRC came packaged with the Spartan manual because the two are so similar. That's what I meant about nothing new there except for some extra scenarios which I don't think I'd ever get around to playing.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

mlc

I didn't know anything about the campaign in Greece and was very dubious about buying COTA, but the game is excellent. A great AI, beautiful maps and stunning gameplay.

I see you already have Forge of Freedom...don't let that slip away...it's an absolute gem of a game.

Good luck.

I'm looking forward to FoF when I finally get the inclination to learn how to play the beast. I've been too busy working on starting my own business (or feeling like I should be working on it to dedicate a lot of time to games [&:]) lately, but one of these days I'm going to buckle down and learn it, cause I can't wait to start playing it.

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

For best AI either COTA or BIL.  BIL has a ton of replaybility with a lot of scenarios and even more being developed.

What's BIL?

ORIGINAL: mlc82

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

For best AI either COTA or BIL. BIL has a ton of replaybility with a lot of scenarios and even more being developed.

What's BIL?

Battles in Lapland ?
Battles in Liguria ?

Or else it's a typo for Battles in Italy [;)]

Just so, and given your "best AI" question there are demos for the following games which you might be interested in :

Battles in Normandy (sister game to the above - 95% same game features)
Tin Soldiers - Alexander the Great - the graphics and camera in Julius Caesar are 100% better, but it's basically the same engine.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Wow a whole thread full of wrong people [:D]

The best "Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame" is Hornet Leader. In fact I think its the only game that fits that description since it can't be played PBEM, TCP/IP, or even 2 players locally. By design it is a single player against a programmed AI.

With physical shipments now available and a big new patch about to come out, it might be something to look into.

Very inexpensive game as well....

He doesn't mean ONLY single player and no multiplayer Veldor he means for a Single Player to ONLY play solo. Besides Hornet Leader suks and has the worst AI in history according to GORF.

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: mlc82

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

For best AI either COTA or BIL. BIL has a ton of replaybility with a lot of scenarios and even more being developed.

What's BIL?

Battles in Lapland ?
Battles in Liguria ?

Or else it's a typo for Battles in Italy [;)]

Just so, and given your "best AI" question there are demos for the following games which you might be interested in :

Battles in Normandy (sister game to the above - 95% same game features)
Tin Soldiers - Alexander the Great - the graphics and camera in Julius Caesar are 100% better, but it's basically the same engine.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

I've actually got Korsun Pocket as well, just forgot to list it, I found it for $5 at a Half Price Books store of all places... I really don't like the way that game is set up although I've heard it's fun- I can't even read the counters in it and I just don't like the "dice" system so much either. I also really, really dislike the "miniatures" look of the Tin Soldiers game but I know some people love them, that's just opinion- I've never played a board or tabletop wargame in my life, just computer ones, so for whatever reason I just don't like the "miniature" look much. That wouldn't prevent me from getting them though as Ancient era games (that are actually good) are few and far between. Will check out the demo!

Maybe try out Peoples Tactics for free Mic82 and then if you like that get Advanced Tactics. I don't know how great the AI is (my neighbor hasn't bought this one yet for some reason (puzzling really), but, the feedback of it seems to be positive. Much more positive than the newly released EIA.