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Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:54 am
by Skeleton
As I have barely begun to scratch the surface of this excellent game, attempting to learn as I play, could someone tell me what are the essential factors to keep units supplied?
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:23 pm
by Erik Rutins
Well, let me see if I can hit the highlights, explaining the entire system takes more time than I have right now, but practice and paying attention to the container supply reports helps you understand its nuances.
#1 - Stay on a railroad for best results, move by railroad when possible as marching consumes supplies and causes attrition
#2 - Train up your container logistical staffs, there is a huge difference in game effect between the worst and best ratings
#3 - If you are below 7 supply average, use Normal Support to get your army's supply back up. If you are below 5 supply average and you can afford it, use High Support.
#4 - If you are about to march several provinces or engage in a large battle, up your supply priority pre-emptively so you don't end up with very low supply afterwards
#5 - If you have an army that isn't going anywhere, has 7+ supply on average and is on a railroad, be aware that you can probably use "No Support" and still have them maintain their supply level while saving you a bunch of money. Learning when you can use the lower supply priorities can make a huge difference in your economy from turn to turn once you get multiple large armies.
Regards,
- Erik
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:39 pm
by Rexor
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Well, let me see if I can hit the highlights, explaining the entire system takes more time than I have right now, but practice and paying attention to the container supply reports helps you understand its nuances.
#1 - Stay on a railroad for best results, move by railroad when possible as marching consumes supplies and causes attrition
#2 - Train up your container logistical staffs, there is a huge difference in game effect between the worst and best ratings
#3 - If you are below 7 supply average, use Normal Support to get your army's supply back up. If you are below 5 supply average and you can afford it, use High Support.
#4 - If you are about to march several provinces or engage in a large battle, up your supply priority pre-emptively so you don't end up with very low supply afterwards
#5 - If you have an army that isn't going anywhere, has 7+ supply on average and is on a railroad, be aware that you can probably use "No Support" and still have them maintain their supply level while saving you a bunch of money. Learning when you can use the lower supply priorities can make a huge difference in your economy from turn to turn once you get multiple large armies.
Regards,
- Erik
Erik, a quick question. How do you "train up" your container staffs? Through academies, right?
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:14 pm
by jkBluesman
Academies and higher containers provide training, e.g. army container may train corps and division container. Sometimes it is worth dispanding bad containers and building new ones with better ratings.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:19 pm
by Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: jkBluesman
Academies and higher containers provide training, e.g. army container may train corps and division container. Sometimes it is worth dispanding bad containers and building new ones with better ratings.
That's exactly it - all three of those elements in combination will give you the best staff ratings fastest. For example, I always try to get the Union up to six academies before the April, 1862 training period. It can make a real difference in performance both in logistics and combat (particularly if you use quick combat) and with a good set of academies you can catch up with some of the CSA staff ratings sooner and even exceed them by the end of the war.
Regards,
- Erik
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:22 pm
by Rexor
Got it. Thanks for both responses.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:44 am
by Skeleton
Thank you Erik and thank you Matrix and Western Civ., this is really a wonderful game and the depth to this game is astonishing. Without question, I will be giving the new CoG expansion/sequel another chance.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:23 am
by harley
So how do I keep the enemy unsupplied?
I have a large (>140K) force of USA troops sitting in abingdon va (I think that's the one) whilst I have about 50K in lynchburg, He's completely cut off from USA territory, and largely demoralised after repeated failed attacks. He's only there because I knocked him back again.
I can't beat him, so how do I attrit him to the max? If he moves, I can't stop him, but without lines to his territory, how long can he keep up?
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:43 pm
by Walloc
In theory for ever. As the game is designed u dont per say need supply lines. Importance is if he owns the territory he is in, which i gather he does. Then if he is willing to make up for lack of RR by using higher supply priovertizes he can actually keep up his supply.
Do note its a bit complicated as each time he moves and losses battles, he losses supply levels. Both from the move and as result of the lost battle.
Still if he is able to have his containers on max supply prioverty and pay the price. Depending on the difficulty level for the AI, the AI possibly can pay.
There is no provision as u have to have a "supply line", only provision is do u own(control) the territory u in or not in order to get resupplied as per prioverty level.
As a note this means u cant really make one turn deep raids and be in supply cuz u wont change control of territories, but if u get surrounded and have a pocket of controlled territories. Yes u can keep up the supply. Tho at a possibily steep price.
Kind regards,
Rasmus
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:03 pm
by Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: Walloc
In theory for ever. As the game is designed u dont per say need supply lines. Importance is if he owns the territory he is in, which i gather he does. Then if he is willing to make up for lack of RR by using higher supply priovertizes he can actually keep up his supply.
Yeah, as he said - though supply lines are key until you take control of territory. Once you take control, it's assumed to have some internal supply capabilities (and there's forage) but there's no way to be sitting in a lone province like that at low supply and keep up your supply level. You pretty much have to be at normal or high priority and if you're fighting big battles against him he'll be using 3 supply per decisive battle (if he wins and 5 supply if he loses).
As a note this means u cant really make one turn deep raids and be in supply cuz u wont change control of territories, but if u get surrounded and have a pocket of controlled territories. Yes u can keep up the supply. Tho at a possibily steep price.
Yep, that's pretty much it.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:28 pm
by Rexor
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: Walloc
In theory for ever. As the game is designed u dont per say need supply lines. Importance is if he owns the territory he is in, which i gather he does. Then if he is willing to make up for lack of RR by using higher supply priovertizes he can actually keep up his supply.
Yeah, as he said - though supply lines are key until you take control of territory. Once you take control, it's assumed to have some internal supply capabilities (and there's forage) but there's no way to be sitting in a lone province like that at low supply and keep up your supply level. You pretty much have to be at normal or high priority and if you're fighting big battles against him he'll be using 3 supply per decisive battle (if he wins and 5 supply if he loses).
As a note this means u cant really make one turn deep raids and be in supply cuz u wont change control of territories, but if u get surrounded and have a pocket of controlled territories. Yes u can keep up the supply. Tho at a possibily steep price.
Yep, that's pretty much it.
But just to be clear--it needs to be a *pocket* of territories, or at least two, right? A force sitting in one controlled territory that's surrounded by enemy territories is considered out of supply and could be in deep trouble if he doesn't conquer at least one more territory to add to his "pocket." Is this correct?
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:00 pm
by Ironclad
No, one controlled province will do. I would like to see high supply unavailable where such a province is isolated from the rest of your territory (and rail grid). Perhaps exclude normal supply too if the force exceeded a certain level eg 30,000. At present its too easy to resupply large forces in isolated and remote or barren territory.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:34 pm
by harley
I got thoroughly creamed, after the third or fourth breakout attempt. This is the only "rule" I've found that seems illogical. How can an enemy import thousands of men and materiel across hostile territory? Money or no - it's physically very difficult.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:42 pm
by Erik Rutins
Well, there is one more tricky strategy. If two armies coexist in a region, they are assumed to have cut each other's supply lines. Normally, this doesn't extend past a turn so you don't see the effect, but if you send a force in on "Avoid Battle", like an entirely cavalry division with a great commander and they succeed in avoiding battle for the entire turn, then the enemy force they are in the same region with will get NO resupply of any kind for the turn regardless of their supply priority.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:09 am
by Erik Rutins
And one more thing I forgot... if you're playing the CSA, put raiders/partisans in the same region with an enemy army. They don't have to do anything, just by being there they have a good chance to cut off rail supply and reduce the army's total resupply value. If you want to risk it, you can raid supplies as well of course.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:10 am
by Skeleton
Okay, to semi-hijack my own thread, what are the keys to being successful in the detailed combat portion of the game? Does flanking not carry a massive combat bonus? I ask because I am getting obiliterated time after time. Thanks in advance!
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:13 am
by Erik Rutins
#1 - Turn on the detailed combat report in the Advanced menu during detailed combat
#2 - Study the report carefully for a battle and re-read the detailed combat rules
If you've already done that, we can chat. [;)]
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:14 am
by jecunningham
Great thread, what do you mean by "disband the container and build a new one"? I thought containers derived their ratings from the General assigned.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:31 pm
by jkBluesman
The container ratings are not related to the generals. Containers may be trained by academies or improve from battle experience. As this may take a while it is sometimes better to disband a container and replace it with a new build.
RE: Keys to keeping units supplied
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:09 pm
by Gil R.
To add a bit to what jkBluesman wrote, the ratings of containers represent their officers below the rank of general, which is why those ratings improve with experience. If you get a container with lousy ratings, you can wait for those ratings to improve after a bunch of battles and when the academies do their thing each year and send out new/better officers, or you can create a new container and disband the existing one. (Or, you can do what I do and stick the container in a fort or city and put some garrison troops in it. The benefit to this is that you can steer replacement troops there, and also if those brigades are called out into battle they will fight together better.)