Matrix Games Forums

Howdy,

I’m having trouble figuring how stacking points and crowding works. I have found how much stacking is allowed in an attack but I don’t understand its effect. In the manual it says that both the defender’s and the attacker’s HP and attack are reduced by 1/2 X. What does this mean? It seems that if it affects everything that the effect is nil, what am I missing? Is it important enough to build units around 50 or 100 stack points?

Also, I have seen on the forums discussion of units having different numbers of attacks with different strengths. Where can I find this information?

Isn't the manual great? LOL!

The X% is variable..
 
If stacklimit for example is 100 then having 150 stackpoints will mean 50% reduction for Hit Points and 25% for attack points. If stacklimit is 100 and having 250 stackpoints in hex it will mean 150% and 75% reductions.
 
Keep in mind for defender stack limit is always 100, for attacker it is 100 (for 1 and 2 sided attacks) and 100 + (50 per side of attack) for 3 sided - 6 sided attacks.
 
kind regards,
Vic

Wow, thanks!

It seems that stacking penalties are a big deal then. In my previous games I've build units around 100 Stack points so I haven't seen the effect of overstacking much. What is the maxium reduction? Can units be dropped to 0 hp?

ORIGINAL: Iron Knight

Also, I have seen on the forums discussion of units having different numbers of attacks with different strengths. Where can I find this information?

Am I wrong about the above? For some reason I thought remembered seeing this somewhere.

ORIGINAL: Vic

The X% is variable..

If stacklimit for example is 100 then having 150 stackpoints will mean 50% reduction for Hit Points and 25% for attack points. If stacklimit is 100 and having 250 stackpoints in hex it will mean 150% and 75% reductions.

Keep in mind for defender stack limit is always 100, for attacker it is 100 (for 1 and 2 sided attacks) and 100 + (50 per side of attack) for 3 sided - 6 sided attacks.

kind regards,
Vic

i should refrase that. sorry. you obviously cant go to 0 strength. that would be unrealistic. the calculation is done by dividing....

so 150/100 = 66% of hitpoints left
and 250/100 = 40% of hitpoints left

Hmm, what is the stack points ? Is it the value of the icon counter ? Or sum of the numbers of "units" in the subfromations ?

I'll throw in another question: where can we find the stack value of a hex? Is it in the manual or somewhere on the map?

OK, I found it on the map info but can't quite understand the explanation. If a hex has a stack value of 0, can it then have 100 points total so that both sides can have 50 without crowding?

Good day Mr Cobb!
 
This table might clearify
 
Sides of attack | Max Attack Stack before penalties | Max Defensive Stack before penalties
 
1 | 100 | 100
2 | 100 | 100
3 | 150 | 100
4 | 200 | 100
5 | 250 | 100
6 | 300 | 100
 
Kind regards,
Vic
 

you metnioned these could be changed, what would we see.. IE if the scen designer changed them would there be any indication in the detailed dwe see on the game map/units etc?

Vic,

OK, I thimk I have it.

delete this post.

bump, if they are changed do we know it without looking in the editor?

Finally, I understand. A hex itself has no limit but combat is hindered by the table Vic provided above. Let's say I have two units in one hex, each of 75 stack points for 150. If the both attacked through the same hex side, they would only attack with 100 points.

I've played too many board wargames where overstacking had a penalty regardless of combat, e.g. a hex has an innate limit of 100 so that putting 150 in it would cause casualties due to attrition, etc.

right, but as this can med modded, is it plain in the on game text what the penalties are, or do we dig it out using editor..?

I think that the part of this that is not well explained, is that the stacking penalties are, for the attacker, not assessed on a hex, by hex, basis. Rather, they are summed for all attacking units, then indexed by the number of hexsides attacked through. Thus, three units, with weights of 130, 10, and 10 attacking a hex would incur penalties, if attacking through 1, or 2 hexes, but not 3 hexes. If only the single unit, of 130, attacked, it would still receive the penalty, regardless, as it can only attack from a single hex.

One way to wrap your head around this is to imagine that the defender occupies the hex under attack, and his density is a function of the area of that space. Meanwhile, the attacker's density is a function of the linear space generated by the number of hexsides attacked through, and allowing for the density of the attacking units to be evenly distributed within this space, regardless of the actual specific densities of the units and hexes they attacked from.

ORIGINAL: Vic

Good day Mr Cobb!

This table might clearify

Sides of attack | Max Attack Stack before penalties | Max Defensive Stack before penalties

1 | 100 | 100
2 | 100 | 100
3 | 150 | 100
4 | 200 | 100
5 | 250 | 100
6 | 300 | 100

Kind regards,
Vic

Is this maximum amount per attack stack (i.e. per attack hex) or per attack (i.e. total of all attack stacks in all attacking hexes)?

Think of it as per hexside. 100 pt  (600 total0 against 100 without penalties - I think.  

I thought it was the maximum amount that could attack out of a hex if htey weer attacking through multiple hexsides - eg a completely surrounded hex could attack all 6 surrounding hexes with up to 300 stack points (say 50 per target hex), whereas only 100 pts can attack out of 1 or 2 hexsides without penalty?

ORIGINAL: Delyn Locksmiths

ORIGINAL: Vic

Good day Mr Cobb!

This table might clearify

Sides of attack | Max Attack Stack before penalties | Max Defensive Stack before penalties

1 | 100 | 100
2 | 100 | 100
3 | 150 | 100
4 | 200 | 100
5 | 250 | 100
6 | 300 | 100

Kind regards,
Vic

Is this maximum amount per attack stack (i.e. per attack hex) or per attack (i.e. total of all attack stacks in all attacking hexes)?

I had always read this as total for the ATTACK, ie, if you attack from 3 hexsides, TOTAL attack strength without penalties is 150. If you attack from 4 hexes (which means 4 hexsides) max total strength is 200.

Rick

Thats correct Rick.