Matrix Games Forums

I'm trying to determine ship availability for a new alternative history mod which I will create using the AE package when it comes out.

I need to figure out what reasonable availability times are for some new ships, given a date of completion.

I notice the following for Yamato:

Laid down: Nov 4, 1937
Launched: August 8, 1940
Commissioned: Dec 16, 1941
Appears in CHS Scenario: May 20, 1942

Since the Yamato does not appear until 6 months after its commission date I assume those 6 months were spent fitting out with sea trials. Musashi appears to have taken 7 months after commissioning to show up in the game. HOWEVER, CL Oyodo appears in the game Feb 28, 1943, the date of its commission. The same goes for CL Noshiro and CV Unryu which also show up in the game on their commission date. I am wondering why it is that some ships become available on their commission date and some do not? [&:]

Thanks for any help.

Yamato's sea trials and especially her gunnery practice took FOREVER. She was not deemed fully operational until May 27th, 1942.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/yamato.htm

As for the Oyodo, she probably shouldn't be available until April 1, 1943, when she was first assigned to an operative unit (Third Fleet).

http://www.combinedfleet.com/oyodo_t.htm

By the same logic, the Noshiro should arrive on August 15, 1943 and the Unryu on August 6, 1944.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/noshiro_t.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/unryut.htm

It all depends. In the Bismarck sea fight, a British battleship was at sea, and in the battle, before completion - with civilian yard workers still
working on her - and a wholly green crew - and systems not fully functional. Similarly, USS Yorktown went to sea at Midway UNABLE to recieve aircraft - again yard workers on board. But since she could launch, she was a carrier - and we were desperate - willing to take chances.

A ship usually wants to have a period to work up a crew - and shake down systems. The newer versions of WITP apparently help this (unless I am mixed up with AE) by giving a ship with low experience a boost during its early days at sea - faster than normal.

For technical reasons I am letting Yamato start the game - but in damaged state (so it does not suck up construction points) - and many times I start a new ship with green crews. But crews need not be green - or even assigned to a ship. [Some navies have crews live ashore and they are assigned a ship for the mission, like many air units do. That means a crew can switch to a ship in good shape even if the one they just brought in has problems needing repairs.]

It appears that at one point CHS (and probably stock) used commission date as appearence date - probably because it is so easy to get that date - and when it entered the theater is hard to know. Also - why should a ship that commissions off the map appear on the map on that same day? Ideally one uses the date in enters the theater - at the location it enter the theater - but to do that for thousands of ships is research time prohibitive. So I have conventions - it takes x days to sail from Norfolk (or wherever).

The main thing is to be reasonable to the assumptions of the scenario - which may not always be strictly historical ones. One should usually impose a trade off - the sooner the ship - the greener the crew - possibly the more systems which don't work - and vice versa - the later the ship - the better it is rated. It is indeed unreasonable to have every ship appear on its commissioning date with a good crew in wholly undamaged state- doubly so if it needs time even to reach the map edge. Yet many - perhaps most - ships were in this state - at least a couple of years ago when I began looking at ship data closely.

So there are perhaps two approaches for Japanese? It's mainly the IJN which will be receiving the "what if" ships.

1. Ships arrive on their completion date, however, they arrive with relatively inexperienced crews and perhaps some system damage.

OR

2. Ships arrive a certain amount of time after their completion date, say 3-6 months at which time their crews arrive relatively more experienced and very little if any system damage. I would assume that the larger the ship, the longer it will need to shake down?

Good assumptions - except perhaps about size. A crew is pretty much going to come up in a time related to the talent available:

late in WWII it should take Japan longer to work up a ship than it does early - due to lack of skilled people

[But you can make an exceptoin if you want: the Japanese air forces formed units effective from the start - by culling other air units]

A US ship sometimes was sent to war after only 30 days - and commonly after 60 days -

unless you have a specific rationalization, make a table - time vs experience

something like

no time day = 40, night = 30

15 days day = 45, night = 37

30 days day = 50, night = 44

45 days day = 55, night = 53

60 days day = 60, night = 60

75 days day = 65, night = 67

90 days day = 70, night = 74

or something like that - and a progressively worse table for each year - slipping a point or two in every table

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Good assumptions - except perhaps about size. A crew is pretty much going to come up in a time related to the talent available:

late in WWII it should take Japan longer to work up a ship than it does early - due to lack of skilled people

[But you can make an exceptoin if you want: the Japanese air forces formed units effective from the start - by culling other air units]

A US ship sometimes was sent to war after only 30 days - and commonly after 60 days -

unless you have a specific rationalization, make a table - time vs experience

something like

no time day = 40, night = 30

15 days day = 45, night = 37

30 days day = 50, night = 44

45 days day = 55, night = 53

60 days day = 60, night = 60

75 days day = 65, night = 67

90 days day = 70, night = 74

or something like that - and a progressively worse table for each year - slipping a point or two in every table

Thanks Cid. This will be very helpful. [:)]