Matrix Games Forums

Hi guys. I'm kindof a newcomer here, (have bought a few games from Matrix but never posted). I usually hang out at a couple of other wargaming sites including the CM forum at the Blitz. I can tell you more than a few CM players from over there are real curious about PC:Kharkov.

Many long-time CM players (incld. myself) have got kindof jaded with the old CM series. This and the fact that Battlefront has now abandoned CM for Real Time and 1:1 rep (erghh), has many pining for a worthy successor to CM.

Will be real interesting to see how Kharkov turns out I think. I dont know much about the 1st PC Winter Storm but seems like there were many problems/bugs etc so hopefully these will be ironed out with Kharkov.

Seems that from reading some of the previous posts here the release date is gonna be about he end of this month....is this right?

- falco.

ORIGINAL: falco
Hi guys. I'm kindof a newcomer here, (have bought a few games from Matrix but never posted). I usually hang out at a couple of other wargaming sites including the CM forum at the Blitz. I can tell you more than a few CM players from over there are real curious about PC:Kharkov.

As a playtester who's been playing this the last 18 months if they have questions on play I can be of some help.

ORIGINAL: falco
Many long-time CM players (incld. myself) have got kindof jaded with the old CM series. This and the fact that Battlefront has now abandoned CM for Real Time and 1:1 rep (erghh), has many pining for a worthy successor to CM.

I guess Matrix is just doing the job BF won't do.[:)]

Erik, is better at pinning down a release date but you are in the ballpark with end Feb early March.

Hi Falco,

ORIGINAL: falco
Hi guys. I'm kindof a newcomer here, (have bought a few games from Matrix but never posted). I usually hang out at a couple of other wargaming sites including the CM forum at the Blitz. I can tell you more than a few CM players from over there are real curious about PC:Kharkov.

Welcome and please tell your buddies to come on over and post their questions here too!

Many long-time CM players (incld. myself) have got kindof jaded with the old CM series. This and the fact that Battlefront has now abandoned CM for Real Time and 1:1 rep (erghh), has many pining for a worthy successor to CM.

We definitely appreciate your interest.

Will be real interesting to see how Kharkov turns out I think. I dont know much about the 1st PC Winter Storm but seems like there were many problems/bugs etc so hopefully these will be ironed out with Kharkov.

Winter Storm was fairly bug free, but it was also not nearly as full featured as CM (or Kharkov). It was really focused on just handling what was necessary for that one campaign. Kharkov is much expanded from that and I think it shows much better what the Panzer Command engine and design can do.

Seems that from reading some of the previous posts here the release date is gonna be about he end of this month....is this right?

I'd say at this point it looks like we'll be in the first week of March, but the only thing we're waiting on right now is for the printed manuals to get back to the warehouse, so that's a pretty firm date.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Mobius
I guess Matrix is just doing the job BF won't do.[:)]

One word of advice to all, please let's not turn this into Matrix vs. Battlefront. I'm fine with people discussing similar games on their merits and posting criticism of CM or PC as long as they're backed up with facts, but let's leave it at that. A lot of gamers, including me, enjoy both CM and PC and don't see the need to choose only one or the other when you can have both.

Regards,

- Erik

As a reluctant ex-CMer (CMBB & CMAK won't run on my vista PC), I'm interested to see if Kharkov can help to fill the void.

WS seemed far too limited, in too many areas, to compete at any level, really.

What's new or different about this iteration that may help me to convert?
There does not appear to be a comprehensive list of features, that I can see.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
What's new or different about this iteration that may help me to convert?
There does not appear to be a comprehensive list of features, that I can see.

Erik can provide a much longer list but these are a few of mine:

Short list of important features:
1. Squad unit level, individual tanks and vehicles.
2. PBEM - you can do two moves between mailings.
3. Relative spotting – a spotting algorithm taking in account terrain and actions of both the spotter and the spotted is employed as well as covered arc. No Borg.
4. Smoke – from direct fire guns, indirect artillery and infantry grenades.
5. Enterable buildings.
6. A scenario and campaign editor.
7. Random battle generator.
8. Modable game data in easy to access text files. This makes it easy to change or add new units.
9. Command and control: Orders are given at the platoon level, then can be tailored to the individual unit within that context. By request new from WS - Withdraw in Reaction phase.
10. AI plays by the same rules and stats as the player. No AI cheats. In fact difficulty levels only changes the number of points a side gets. Nothing else.

I owned all the cm series, great game although I never really liked cmak as much as it cut off in 43 and my stupid vid card maker stoped supporting fog, I lovve fog!
 
I own tow, it is awesome, and also has warts, no need to beat a dead horse.. leave that atthe BF site guys.
The first winterstorm just lackedsomething, I liked the move orders and breakdown. perhaps it was the feeling a little stale after the first go round.
I look forward to this newer version and SMOKE, we like smoke too hehe, and will be interested how the infantry does in the game for sighting.
Darn manuals! WE don't need no stinkin manuals lol

ORIGINAL: Mobius


Short list of important features:
1. Squad unit level, individual tanks and vehicles.
2. PBEM - you can do two moves between mailings.
3. Relative spotting – a spotting algorithm taking in account terrain and actions of both the spotter and the spotted is employed as well as covered arc. No Borg.
4. Smoke – from direct fire guns, indirect artillery and infantry grenades.
5. Enterable buildings.
6. A scenario and campaign editor.
7. Random battle generator.
8. Modable game data in easy to access text files. This makes it easy to change or add new units.
9. Command and control: Orders are given at the platoon level, then can be tailored to the individual unit within that context. By request new from WS - Withdraw in Reaction phase.
10. AI plays by the same rules and stats as the player. No AI cheats. In fact difficulty levels only changes the number of points a side gets. Nothing else.

Thanks Mobius.

Is that Laryngoscopes Random battle generator? Now that could go a long way to swinging it for me.

What is the official vehicle/squad-type count?

Are buildings fully or partially destructible?

What is the maximum size of a possible scenario, as defined by number of turns and number of units per side (I am assuming the map is still limited to 1sq KM)?

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Is that Laryngoscopes Random battle generator? Now that could go a long way to swinging it for me.

Yes.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
What is the official vehicle/squad-type count?

Duno. Have to wait for Erik for the official count.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Are buildings fully or partially destructible?

None. Still undestructable.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
What is the maximum size of a possible scenario, as defined by number of turns and number of units per side (I am assuming the map is still limited to 1sq KM)?

I don't know if there is an actual turn limit. There is a limit given that a scenario uses. I don't know if thats a hard limit or just when points for holding out more turns gets you a lot more victory points. Played a scenario other night at over 28 turns my tanks ran out of HE, then machinegun ammo. In the end they only had APHE to fire at infantry.

You can get more than the old limit now as the UID panel pages to show them. Maybe for practical purposes around 80-100? Too many units will slow down older boxes.

Yes, still 1000m x 1000m. Terrain is more varied than WS.

and don't see the need to choose only one or the other when you can have both.

But, that's just it Erik we CAN'T have BOTH anymore because they aren't making CM like it was before. Now it's turned into a KCF (<~ how yah like my new way of saying what I want to say without so many knowing what it means? haha) and no longer the turn based wego game we are accustom to. So, this is a game type vs game type situation and BF loses hands down with their recent releases of those KCF type games.

See what I don't like is we the hardcore type wargamers poured money into BF for several years for those turn based wego games and then they "betrayed" us and took the money and ran with it all the way to the mainstream outlet and just turned their backs on us that supported them for nearly 10 years. That's what pisses me off about them. They obviously were making a decent income off of the CMX1 series they kept making them for 6 or 7 years. Then they come up with those two KCF games and just totally borked their community. Just like Creative Assembly pretty much did with RTW and M2TW, totally KCF now and no AI whatsoever.

Just like Vista if we don't crusade against something we don't like then it will never be abolished or changed. So spreading the word that BF now makes KCF games is one of the best ways I can think of to perhaps get them to go back to the origional turn based wego system we all grew to enjoy.

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
But, that's just it Erik we CAN'T have BOTH anymore because they aren't making CM like it was before. Now it's turned into a KCF (<~ how yah like my new way of saying what I want to say without so many knowing what it means? haha) and no longer the turn based wego game we are accustom to. So, this is a game type vs game type situation and BF loses hands down with their recent releases of those KCF type games.

If you want to call it a "CF", fine that's your opinion, but I've asked you to please leave off the "K" part unless you think I'm a "K" too. With that said, we welcome the interest from folks who are unhappy with the direction of CM but we don't want to start any new flame wars here.

See what I don't like is we the hardcore type wargamers poured money into BF for several years for those turn based wego games and then they "betrayed" us and took the money and ran with it all the way to the mainstream outlet and just turned their backs on us that supported them for nearly 10 years. That's what pisses me off about them. They obviously were making a decent income off of the CMX1 series they kept making them for 6 or 7 years. Then they come up with those two KCF games and just totally borked their community. Just like Creative Assembly pretty much did with RTW and M2TW, totally KCF now and no AI whatsoever.

This is something you should be discussing with them on their forum or in our general discsussion forum. I don't see that anyone was "betrayed" - the truth is developers and designers don't always want the same thing their community wants and sometimes when those interests diverge there's friction, but I am 100% sure no one at BF was trying to turn their backs on their fans. They did what they thought was best for the direction CM should go. Let's keep the topic here focused on Panzer Command please.

Just like Vista if we don't crusade against something we don't like then it will never be abolished or changed. So spreading the word that BF now makes KCF games is one of the best ways I can think of to perhaps get them to go back to the origional turn based wego system we all grew to enjoy.

Spread that word elsewhere please, this is not the place to continue this "KCF" stuff or to bash Battlefront. If you want to discuss Panzer Command, this is the place to be, but keep it constructive.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Falco,

ORIGINAL: falco
Hi guys. I'm kindof a newcomer here, (have bought a few games from Matrix but never posted). I usually hang out at a couple of other wargaming sites including the CM forum at the Blitz. I can tell you more than a few CM players from over there are real curious about PC:Kharkov.

Welcome and please tell your buddies to come on over and post their questions here too!

Many long-time CM players (incld. myself) have got kindof jaded with the old CM series. This and the fact that Battlefront has now abandoned CM for Real Time and 1:1 rep (erghh), has many pining for a worthy successor to CM.

We definitely appreciate your interest.

Will be real interesting to see how Kharkov turns out I think. I dont know much about the 1st PC Winter Storm but seems like there were many problems/bugs etc so hopefully these will be ironed out with Kharkov.

Winter Storm was fairly bug free, but it was also not nearly as full featured as CM (or Kharkov). It was really focused on just handling what was necessary for that one campaign. Kharkov is much expanded from that and I think it shows much better what the Panzer Command engine and design can do.

Seems that from reading some of the previous posts here the release date is gonna be about he end of this month....is this right?

I'd say at this point it looks like we'll be in the first week of March, but the only thing we're waiting on right now is for the printed manuals to get back to the warehouse, so that's a pretty firm date.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks for the welcome guys. Looking foward to PCK....will be definitely on my shopping list I think. Looks like a lot of cool features.

- falco.