Matrix Games Forums

In the past week I have been fiddling with creating a new database viewer/editor for Harpoon 3 ANW (no idea if the databases with other versions are compatible).

I have deciphered most of the database format, mainly using an old MS Access database compare tool I found and downloaded and I am pretty sure I can figure out any changes by experimenting. The tool will be a pure Windows application written in C++. Although doing it this way is quite harder than just making one more MS Access editor, I have chosen this route for these reasons:

a. The tool will not require ownership of any additional software (MS Access).
b. The tool will run a lot faster, more efficiantly and have negligible system requirements.
c. The tool will not use a single line of code from any existing piece of software, whether that is public domain or proprietary. Furthermore, by the nature of the application, nobody will be able to claim or imply that the tool uses pre-existing code, as code for a Win 32 database editor does not even exist at the moment.

The reason I am interested in doing that is because I like the idea of having an external database viewer that can run parallel to the game and not force a pause when being used. Especially for those with two monitors it can be an invaluable tool for both scenario design and playing the game. Once I have the viewer done, adding the capability to alter values and save the files back is a relatively minor task, hence the editing part.

So, first of all I would like to know if there are any objections from the publisher and the developer of the game in me creating and freely distributing this tool. I undertsand that there may be some intellectual property rights involved, regarding the database file format, but anyone with basic knowledge of programming can have access to these file formats with a minimum of effort, out of tools that were created long ago and are still openly downloadable. Additionally, even though one would be able to edit their database with the tool, they would still need the in-game database editor to create the signature file for the database, so any level of control over who can and cannot publish databases that already exists will not be altered.

Second, from the community, I would like to know if there is an interest in such a tool. I will eventually create it just for my personal use anyway, but if I know there are people out there that want the tool I will probably do it in a much tighter schedule.

Edit: Just to make something more clear, unlike MS Access database editors, a pure Windows application does not come distributed with the source code. Therefore anyone in pocession of the tool will not be able to reverse engineer it without considerably more effort than I expended creating it. I do not plan to make the source code publicly available.

As maintainer of the the dbComp tool I object.  If you used it as a model to decipher the database format, you most certainly used existing code to decipher the format.  Not only that but I only had permission to update the dbComp tool as a result of requesting such permission and having it granted by AGSI.   
 
A win32 database editor does exist, it is the one you get by filling out the editor request form, it is also written in C++. 
 
Anyway, that all said I want to see every closed Harpoon format documented for public usage (and/or an API created) and would assist any parties in doing so, IF and WHEN they have permission from AGSI.  So yes, I want the tool and any other tools that spill out, but only if you go thru the proper channels and so far that has not happened.

Don Gilman, president of AGSI can be reached at dgilman@advancedgaming.biz.  He is the person who can give you permission and even help in your development (by giving you legitimacy and access to the programmers).
 
If the dbComp you are working from is from before my days as maintainer, Don has more rights to that than anyone as well (as a result of licensing the Access based editor from Jon Reimer), if it has my name in it, then I'd be the guy. 
 
The Harpoon games seriously need people willing to write utilities, but respecting people's property and prior efforts has to come first.

Shemar,

The DBComp tool was developed by Jon Reimer and myself for the express purpose of comparing two differing versions of the same DB (HUD-II) or for that matter any two Harpoon databases. I maintained various versions of this tool here and when I returned to this community I offered these tools to Don Gilman for use and further development by AGSI.

Don informed me that as far as he was concerned these tools were my property as he had not purchased anything other than the Reimer Editor (RE) from Jon Reimer. Along with DBComp I also have a utility that prints out Orders of Battle based on the Country Annex of the Harpoon Database you have loaded.

I do not know where you found and downloaded this file. However I would like to be promptly informed so I can take the required measures to have the link deleted immediately. I have decided long ago that continued development of these tools and others would be undertaken either by myself at some point or before that time that, Tony Eischens would have sole access to future development. Due to Tony's hard work and full cooperation with AGSI we now have a fully working version compatible with the latest H3ANW 3.8/3.9 DB structures.

DBComp is available here:
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.ph ... howfile=18

The Harpoon database structures are the copyright property of Advanced Gaming Systems Inc, and as such the past and current developers of the tools associated with the Reimer Editor and DBComp have had to gain permission from AGSI to even undertake their development. You do not by simple possesion of a file assume these same rights. I would follow Tony's advice and contact Don Gilman immediately before you progress further in your efforts. I would also suggest you drop both Tony and myself a line requesting permission to reverse engineer anything associated with the current or past versions of the DBComp utility.

I have no major concerns with the develpoment of further ultilities for use by the Harpoon community at large, in fact I encourage it, including the use of DBComp as a basis for this same future development. I do however believe there is a correct way to go about it and checking with the people concerned is always a good starting point.

Thanks in advance

Darren Buckley

ORIGINAL: TonyE
The Harpoon games seriously need people willing to write utilities, but respecting people's property and prior efforts has to come first.

ROFLMAO! To hear this from Herman's patron is beyond funny...

First of all, thank you for the replies.
 
I found an old version of the DBComp tool after following numerous dead links and other dead ends. I will make an honest effort to re-locate it and inform Bucks of the link. I was not aware it was not in the public domain. When I said not a single line of code will be used, I meant in my application. My application directly loads record chunks in structures and it does not use the one field at a time loading proccess of the DBComp tool.
 
The existing editor that comes with Harpoon ANW may be written in C++ but it is not a Win32 application. It does not use the Win32 GUI. And of course I have absolutely no access to its source code so it would be impossible to use any code from that.
 
Thanks for the tip on contacting Don Gilman. I will absolutely ask his permission and pretty much kill the project if he feels I am trampling on his IP rights. I will also most definitely be sending you and Bucks requests to use your tool in the understanding of the database format. Again I apologiose for it being retro-active as I was not aware there was an issue there, but I assure you I will not use or publish anything derived from it without proper permissions and credits.
 
Finally, Sunburn, please keep any past conflicts or personal issues between members of the Harppon community away from me, this topic and my proposed project.

ORIGINAL: TonyE

As maintainer of the the dbComp tool I object.  If you used it as a model to decipher the database format, you most certainly used existing code to decipher the format.  Not only that but I only had permission to update the dbComp tool as a result of requesting such permission and having it granted by AGSI.

Your private message and e-mail options on this forum are disabled so I am posting it here instead:

As I already said, I was not aware that the specific tool came with specific terms of use. I would like to request your permission to use it in understanding the Harpoon database file formats. Since I have already done so, it is my intention to not continue my project until a viable and legal source is available to me and all proper permissions have been obtained.

I have already asked for similar permissions from Don Gilman and Bucks. I want to make it clear that I do understand that having just your permission does not mean I can use the material and I do understand that any permission you give me will be contingent on other people who also have rights over the tool and file formats also giving their permission.

[Deleted by Admins]

ORIGINAL: Shemar

Your private message and e-mail options on this forum are disabled so I am posting it here instead:

That's a bummer on the PMs being disabled [:(] (edit: I went into my profile and enabled PMs now, thank you for the heads up, I wouldn't have known otherwise).

Anyway, yes, please do make use of dbComp in furthering your project (well, as long as you don't start charging for it) if and when DonG gives you permission. Then hopefully you'll be able to share the tool for the rest of us to add to our arsenals.

Thank you TonyE.
 
I assure you that I will never charge money or in any other way impede anyone form using my tool in any way, beyond taking any measures deemed necessary by AGSI to protect their Intellectual Property rights.

Great much to do about nothing guys. Keep up the good work[:)]