Matrix Games Forums

Hi All,

Is it possible to detach units and have them operate individually? Then re-attach them if you wish.

Regards John

In effect yes, but you don't formally "detach" them. You can give individual squads or vehicles their own sub-orders. There's no limit on how far they can move from the platoon commander or who they can shoot, etc. but they must still limit their sub-orders to those available within the platoon's base order.

Regards,

- Erik

There is still command control elements and issues when units get too far away from their leaders ...right?

Minor really, but yes. At this scale it's not as if you can send someone in your platoon to the Western Front.

Oh yeah I forget it's 1km x 1km maps instead of 2km x 2km...no biggie

Hi Erik,

Sometimes it is nice to be able to form subgroups with units such as those units depleted. ( objective defence ) Or those who are Veteran. ( Fire Teams ) Some units may have their own command value or perhaps operate Ad Hoc under a H.Q. or section leader.

As an example one infantry section is badly depleted with only one damaged sqaud left. In this case you could attach them to another infantry platoon.

In my view this ability would make the game more flexible. Do you have any plans along these lines?

regards John

ORIGINAL: z1812
Sometimes it is nice to be able to form subgroups with units such as those units depleted. ( objective defence ) Or those who are Veteran. ( Fire Teams ) Some units may have their own command value or perhaps operate Ad Hoc under a H.Q. or section leader.
As an example one infantry section is badly depleted with only one damaged sqaud left. In this case you could attach them to another infantry platoon.
In my view this ability would make the game more flexible. Do you have any plans along these lines?

I understand - what I'm saying is that in effect, there's nothing stopping you from forming ad hoc groups now, they are just not "officially" from the same platoon. With that said I think as the map size and campaign functionality improves, we'll want to allow something like this. We also have some future plans as far as adding fleshed out platoon and company leaders, which would make this type of functionality more desireable as well.

Right now, part of the reason why platoons stay together in your TO&E even if you use them separately once on the map is because they are tracked that way as far as experience and performance for campaign purposes. Before we could allow any sort of attaching/detaching/disbanding/reforming we'd have to make sure it works with the campaign system.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: z1812
Sometimes it is nice to be able to form subgroups with units such as those units depleted. ( objective defence ) Or those who are Veteran. ( Fire Teams ) Some units may have their own command value or perhaps operate Ad Hoc under a H.Q. or section leader.

The basic infantry unit was the squad. Things revolve around that concept.
The Fire Team is a post WWII concept.

When platoons lose squads that are the leader unit, leadership is passed to the next in line. Tank platoon leaders that lose mobility pass their leadership to another runner.

Hi Mobius,

The term Fire-team is post World War 2. The concept and pratice was well known quite a time before World War 2. One of the 2 fellows described below saw it in action in 1937 while observing The Communist 8th army in action.

Just for your interest: The following info is quoted from reference material.

"Carlson and Merritt Edson are believed to have developed the fireteam concept in the Nicaraguan campaign. At that time the U.S. Marine squad consisted of a Corporal and 7 Marines all armed with a bolt action M1903 Springfield rifle and an automatic rifleman armed with a Browning Automatic Rifle. With the introduction of close combat weapons such as the Thompson submachine gun and shotguns and the thick vegetation that could provide a quick overrun of a patrol, a team of 4 men armed with these weapons had more firepower and maneuverability than the standard 9 man squad. He later brought these ideas back to the U.S. when the country entered World War II. Under his command, the 2nd Marine Raider battalion were issued with the semiautomatic M-1 Rifle and was organized in the fireteam (although it was called firegroup) concept, 3 firegroups to a squad with a squad leader. A firegroup composed of a M1 Garand rifleman, a BAR and a submachine gunner. After sustaining severe wounds, Carlson was replaced and his battalion later disbanded and reorganized under conventional Marine doctrine of 10-man squads. Later, Carlson's fireteam concept was re-adopted.

regards John

ORIGINAL: z1812
Just for your interest: The following info is quoted from reference material.
"Carlson and Merritt Edson are believed to have developed the fireteam concept in the Nicaraguan campaign. At that time the U.S. Marine squad consisted of a Corporal and 7 Marines all armed with a bolt action M1903 Springfield rifle and an automatic rifleman armed with a Browning Automatic Rifle. With the introduction of close combat weapons such as the Thompson submachine gun and shotguns and the thick vegetation that could provide a quick overrun of a patrol, a team of 4 men armed with these weapons had more firepower and maneuverability than the standard 9 man squad. He later brought these ideas back to the U.S. when the country entered World War II. Under his command, the 2nd Marine Raider battalion were issued with the semiautomatic M-1 Rifle and was organized in the fireteam (although it was called firegroup) concept, 3 firegroups to a squad with a squad leader. A firegroup composed of a M1 Garand rifleman, a BAR and a submachine gunner. After sustaining severe wounds, Carlson was replaced and his battalion later disbanded and reorganized under conventional Marine doctrine of 10-man squads. Later, Carlson's fireteam concept was re-adopted.
regards John

John, yes I know the Marines and some special organizations started using the 4 man firegroup concept during WWII. But that was after the squad's fire power was increased to nearly the equivalent of a normal squad with better weapons. You need semi-auto or automatic rifles to give 4 men enough firepower to be effective or you need to give one of them a LMG. 3-4 Marines armed with the '03 rifle aren't going to form a fire group.