Matrix Games Forums

Still basing it on Winterstorm demo(soon getting this).

To me it looks more like smoke than Artillery barrages. In my opinion Katushas when they
struck were pretty devastating, that goes for 152mm artillery as well.

Any chance for some updates when it comes to artillery in this release?

Remember Steel Panthers when artillery struck, it was death .

World in Conflict has pretty cool artillery effects .

I've certainly been on the receiving end of some deadly barrages in Kharkov. Are you sure the artillery is falling on target? Katyushas are quite in accurate and often start out way off target and can miss the intended area entirely.

Infantry in buildings (if that's who you're bombarding) does also have some protection, but it's certainly not invulnerable vs. artillery. The final thing is to give it some time, sometimes you need a few barrages to really clear units out of protected positions and your artillery will not run out of ammo.

With that said, it's not impossible that there could be situations where its not effective enough, but I'd need a bit more info to do some testing.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: marcusm
Any chance for some updates when it comes to artillery in this release?

Yes.
The WS demo used a different area for the artillery zone. PCK correctly calculates the average density of shells per unit area for a smaller beaten zone. Thus increasing artillery effectiveness by around 4x.

This change may have gotten into the first patch to PCOWS. It was made some time ago.

ORIGINAL: Mobius
The WS demo used a different area for the artillery zone. PCK correctly calculates the average density of shells per unit area for a smaller beaten zone. Thus increasing artillery effectiveness by around 4x.

This change may have gotten into the first patch to PCOWS. It was made some time ago.

Good point, I remember that now, but I don't recall for sure if we made that change in Winterstorm or only in Kharkov. I think that was probably a Kharkov change. Checking notes... yep, I see that on one of my Kharkov change lists.

Could have been the graphical effects then that made it look more smokelike.

I know Katyushas were crap at finding targets but once they did it was pretty devastating .

ORIGINAL: marcusm
Could have been the graphical effects then that made it look more smokelike.
I know Katyushas were crap at finding targets but once they did it was pretty devastating .

Yeah, they do have some big smoke trails, but there's a boom at the end. They also do have excellent firepower for their size - if they hit. A 132mm Katyusha barrage in one battle really laid waste to a couple of my infantry platoons, but I have also seen rockets go off by hundreds of meters and do nothing at all.

Well in that case I have nothing to worry about .

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Mobius
The WS demo used a different area for the artillery zone. PCK correctly calculates the average density of shells per unit area for a smaller beaten zone. Thus increasing artillery effectiveness by around 4x.
This change may have gotten into the first patch to PCOWS. It was made some time ago.

Good point, I remember that now, but I don't recall for sure if we made that change in Winterstorm or only in Kharkov. I think that was probably a Kharkov change. Checking notes... yep, I see that on one of my Kharkov change lists.

WoW, it's been a long time.[&:]
I would like to see the explosions bigger. They look a little smallish to me compared to the tanks.

I've still some gripes with arty also :
- Rather costly for a random availability as far as I've seen it
- Problem : "spotting indirect" freezes a whole platoon for not only the spotting, but also the barrage...
- and linked problem, when a barrage starts you cant adjust it (so why spotting ?)
- you can't cancel it either to save ammo...

Overall while I can understand the "simplified" approach it seems a little weak to me, not only compared to CM but even to SL.

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
- Rather costly for a random availability as far as I've seen it

I have to suggest giving it a little more time, I've seen too many effective barrages to want to really reduce the points more without more evidence.

- Problem : "spotting indirect" freezes a whole platoon for not only the spotting, but also the barrage...

Actually, you can spot and then change the orders and get on with the rest of your plans. The abstracted FO is assumed to be taking care of the rest.

- and linked problem, when a barrage starts you cant adjust it (so why spotting ?)

The FO auto-adjusts each phase, which generally makes it more accurate on the last phase than the first.

- you can't cancel it either to save ammo...

There's no ammo to conserve and that's deliberate, but you can certainly cancel fire to start the cooldown process sooner and bring your artillery back to availability faster.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

I've still some gripes with arty also :
..- Problem : "spotting indirect" freezes a whole platoon for not only the spotting, but also the barrage...
..

I have no problem calling the mortars in then going back and issuing an engage move to the HQ platoon and lettting it move all in one order phase.

Someone else mentioned this as a problem as well, but I think it's worked evertime I've tried it.

Rick

I didn't realize you could spot and then change orders to do something else in the same turn. I'd been waiting a turn before changing orders. That's good to know.

I do wish the explosion graphics were a bit bigger! And -- here's a strange request -- I wish they were noisier too! One thing I loved about "Company of Heroes" was that incoming arty fire was so loud it was downright SCARY! Maybe I just need to turn up my speakers in PCK.

I find the artillery effectiveness good enough as I can take out AT guns with it and the enemy can take out mine as well. It's not too powerful as some other games, but it's not too useless as well.

But I use artillery more for laying smoke in this game. This game taught me to use smoke and carefully think about the tactics the most (this is a positive comment). The game is very focused on coordination and punishes an uncoordinated attack accordingly. Some may not like this micromanaging.

If I could chime in here....

I've only played the tutorial and first boot camp, but my observations on arty are this...

For smoke, using open sheaf, the arty was pretty well accurate...falling pretty much around the two target zones shown for open sheaf.

The one single time I called HE, using Closed Sheaf, it was extremely innacurate and didn't take out the AT gun where I had placed the target icon.

Just my 2 pennies worth in that open sheaf smoke was far more accurate than closed sheaf HE...in the one single instance I've used HE

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

If I could chime in here....

I've only played the tutorial and first boot camp, but my observations on arty are this...

For smoke, using open sheaf, the arty was pretty well accurate...falling pretty much around the two target zones shown for open sheaf.

The one single time I called HE, using Closed Sheaf, it was extremely innacurate and didn't take out the AT gun where I had placed the target icon.

Just my 2 pennies worth in that open sheaf smoke was far more accurate than closed sheaf HE...in the one single instance I've used HE

JudgeDredd,

Below is a screenshot of the XML for a 105mm (as an example). You can see the to-hit chance based on range.

The off-board arty is randomly placed just outside the map ... location dependant on setup direction etc.

I'm guessing that for OPEN it's firing several times, for each gun ... several chances to roll a hit.
I'm guessing that for CLOSED it's firing only once, for the whole unit ... which may miss altogether in one pop.

Just a guess. I dunno.

Anyway ... It appears this can be modded to suit one's taste. Let me know if you want me to mod some artillery for you later on if modding isn't your cup of tea [:)]. Just to experiment at the very least.

Rob

Whilst on the subject of arty, I just wanted to mention that I am very impressed with smoke coverage and time of dispertion.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Whilst on the subject of arty, I just wanted to mention that I am very impressed with smoke coverage and time of dispertion.

Yeah me too. It is use full in this game.

Not too weak for me so far.  I'm now having many direct hits from 82mm mortar fire knocking out my PzIIs and H/Ts.  Can't get away from it.  It sounds highly situational, which is maybe accurate.

Ohh I miss big fat craters after every shell [8|]

ORIGINAL: Mraah
Anyway ... It appears this can be modded to suit one's taste. Let me know if you want me to mod some artillery for you later on if modding isn't your cup of tea [:)]. Just to experiment at the very least.
Rob

Rob that accuracy data is for direct fire. Which is a % chance. Don't remember what it is though but it is coded and not in xml. I think the actual areas are listed in rule book. .