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Hi -

I am looking to have a more "historically¡¨ paced rather then fantasy game against Japanese opponent using scenario CHS 157, prefer someone from the good ol¡¦ USA. Also looking for a newer/intermediate PBEM player like myself (I have played only part of a single PBEM game). Need to be able to do 1 turn per day and more on the weekends.

House rules will be used to help keep things a little reasonable and fair for both sides. I am open to some negotiation but the spirit of the rules must remain. Lets talk.

House Rules
1) Use common sense (the most important one)
2) No gamey use of paras - you must drop the entire unit (it must be whole to start) and then recombine (make whole again) before using again (and city drops only)
3) No shock attack with pursuit except for tank/cavalry units in Road/rail hexes only (no units can shock attack with pursuit in trail hexes)
4) No cutting (resetting) land movement of land stacks with small units or fragments of units (this includes non-base sea invasions designed to disrupt land movement)
5) No use of small units to burn up supplies of isolated units (attacking 500,000 men that are isolated with a single unit to make the defenders use up their supply)
6) No Japanese ships past Singapore until Singapore falls (subs are allowed)
7) All invasions within LBA range only
8) No invasions/attacks on Aden or Panama, no sub ops within 5 hexes of the outlet of Aden or Panama
9) Bottom of the map is off limits to Japanese (first 10 rows of the map) ¡V represents an off map shipping lane well out of Jap range
10) Use PPs before moving Kwangtung units out of Manchuria (AIR & LAND)
11) Use PPs before moving China Expeditionary/China Command units out of China (AIR & LAND)
12) No invasions by subs
13) ASW TF max of 10 ships
14) PT boat TF¡¦s not greater then 8 and only 3 TF¡¦s per base allowed
15) AC stacking: 50x base size +1 (a level 1 base can have 100 ac, level 2 150, etc)
16) AC that transfer greater than 9 hexes must rest one turn before conducting any air operations (except another air transfer)
17) No naval bombing with B-29s
18) 4E city bombing attacks above 15,000 feet during the day
19) No city bombing attacks from or against Chinese bases
20) Do not convert 2e bombers to 4e. Can convert Bolo's from PH to 4e¡¦s only
21) Allies do not use LBA for 100ft naval attack until 1943
22) Air Transport: Only planes designated as transport aircraft may airlift troops. Other aircraft allowed to transport troops by game mechanics are only permitted to do so when evacuating troops
23) TF Rearming: No TF may re-arm in a port smaller than size 3 without a AE ship present (TF consisting of DD class ships only may use a AD type ship to fill this requirement). No capital ships may re-arm in a port smaller than size 3 without a AO/TK and a AE ship present. No forward base refueling of SS TF in ports under size 3 unless a AO/TK is present.


For the 1st turn
- Japanese PH attack for 1 turn then return to Home Islands (no second PH attack or allied ship hunting post Dec 7th until KB has returned to Osaka). Although you can go to any hex northside of Wake Island if want to catch Allied CV¡¦s but then must return to Osaka
- Only a single Port attack on turn 1
- All ships and planes not in Pearl Harbor can be moved (as long as you follow rule #10 & #11)
- No new troop transport TF¡¦s can be created on turn 1
- No new surface combat or bombardment TF¡¦s can be created on turn 1
- No new air combat TFs can be created on turn 1
- Game created invasion TF¡¦s can be diverted to other targets but only those outer bases on the periphery of the Allied held areas (ie ¡V no penetrations into Allied held areas ¡V example no attacks on Johnston, Kendari, Suva, Noumeau, Australia, etc)

Game Settings
- Single day turns
- Fog of war, weather, damage control on,
- historical first turn off
- player defined upgrades on
- vary setup off
- Dec 7th surprise on
- sub doctrines on for both
- Animation & Combat summaries on

IN ADDITION TO ABOVE GAME „³ If someone is interested in doing a fantasy CHS 157 game, I have some thoughts on making the game a little more challanging for the JAP player by modifying when hostilities actually start (post 12/7). Pure fantasy but willing to give it a try for FUN.

Let me know then I will post my email address

S!

Jaypea

Hi Jaypea

Hum, interesting house rules.
How can i know that i have enough transport planes for an entire
paradrop troup?
What is the rule?

Hi - I have a similar HR in my game, and it isn't that you have to drop the whole unit in one go - just that you can't drop part of the unit in a base, and then drop some more of it in another base.

You can keep dropping into the same base, or you wait until the two parts of the para unit have found each other (either the dropped part is picked up an returned, or the heavy equipment marches/is shipped to where the dropped unit is), and then you can drop them again. I think it is a great rule myself.

I imagine that is what the OP had in mind, but that is just a guess on my part.

Well, i undertand, thanks Feurer Krieg

Yes exactly as FK describes.   Thanks FK!
 
JP

ORIGINAL: Jaypea
Hi -

I am looking to have a more "historically¡¨ paced rather then fantasy game against Japanese opponent using scenario CHS 157, prefer someone from the good ol¡¦ USA. Also looking for a newer/intermediate PBEM player like myself (I have played only part of a single PBEM game). Need to be able to do 1 turn per day and more on the weekends.

I may consider it but CHS 157 (NikMod) has some issues with the Air Ratings. It is something I stumbled over while working on the AE project. I have an idea of what would make them better but it would take a little work modding the scenario.

House rules will be used to help keep things a little reasonable and fair for both sides. I am open to some negotiation but the spirit of the rules must remain. Lets talk.

House Rules
1) Use common sense (the most important one)
2) No gamey use of paras - you must drop the entire unit (it must be whole to start) and then recombine (make whole again) before using again (and city drops only)

IMO you can drop portions of the same unit on a couple different bases simulating company level actions. However I think this probably stems from Trolls use of paras in China vs Gen Hoepner which was "gamey"

3) No shock attack with pursuit except for tank/cavalry units in Road/rail hexes only (no units can shock attack with pursuit in trail hexes)
4) No cutting (resetting) land movement of land stacks with small units or fragments of units (this includes non-base sea invasions designed to disrupt land movement)

#4 would not be necessary if it weren't for using the #2 tactic used by Troll or if #3 didn't exist.

5) No use of small units to burn up supplies of isolated units (attacking 500,000 men that are isolated with a single unit to make the defenders use up their supply)

So probing attacks are prohibited? Its all or nothing? IMO if someone wants to trash an Ant let them.

6) No Japanese ships past Singapore until Singapore falls (subs are allowed)

I assume through the straights between Singapore and Sumatra....or are the Japanese prohibited from going straight onto Java?

7) All invasions within LBA range only

So Tarawa, Makin, Midway, and most of the Aleutians are off-limits?

8) No invasions/attacks on Aden or Panama, no sub ops within 5 hexes of the outlet of Aden or Panama
9) Bottom of the map is off limits to Japanese (first 10 rows of the map) ¡V represents an off map shipping lane well out of Jap range
10) Use PPs before moving Kwangtung units out of Manchuria (AIR & LAND)
11) Use PPs before moving China Expeditionary/China Command units out of China (AIR & LAND)
12) No invasions by subs

Not that I'm particularly fond of them but what is the reasoning for No Sub Invasions? If playing with common sense I would agree that it it is unrealistic to conduct an invasion using 30 subs all together in one TF....but what about one sub carrying Marines or SNLF's to land a probe?

13) ASW TF max of 6 ships
14) PT boat TF¡¦s not greater then 8 and only 3 TF¡¦s per base allowed
15) AC stacking: 50x base size +1 (a level 1 base can have 100 ac, level 2 150, etc)

The game already has stacking penalties. I presume you feel they are not stringent enough. Likewise if some one wants to put all of their eggs in one basket --- have at it.

16) AC that transfer greater than 9 hexes must rest one turn before conducting any air operations (except another air transfer)
17) No naval bombing with B-29s
18) 4E city bombing attacks above 15,000 feet during the day
19) No city bombing attacks from or against Chinese bases

Why? CHS already has built in 'protections' for this tactic.

20) Do not convert 2e bombers to 4e. Can convert Bolo's from PH to 4e¡¦s only

If you play PDU's off this shouldn't be a problem.

21) Allies do not use LBA for 100ft naval attack until 1943

So -P-40's in the Philippines cannot strafe the Japanese?

22) Air Transport: Only planes designated as transport aircraft may airlift troops. Other aircraft allowed to transport troops by game mechanics are only permitted to do so when evacuating troops
23) TF Rearming: No TF may re-arm in a port smaller than size 3 without a AE ship present (TF consisting of DD class ships only may use a AD type ship to fill this requirement). No capital ships may re-arm in a port smaller than size 3 without a AO/TK and a AE ship present. No forward base refueling of SS TF in ports under size 3 unless a AO/TK is present.


For the 1st turn
- Japanese PH attack for 1 turn then return to Home Islands (no second PH attack or allied ship hunting post Dec 7th until KB has returned to Osaka). Although you can go to any hex northside of Wake Island if want to catch Allied CV¡¦s but then must return to Osaka

Why not Truk? Or other places.... or move to support other invasions?

- Only a single Port attack on turn 1
- All ships and planes not in Pearl Harbor can be moved (as long as you follow rule #10 & #11)
- No new troop transport TF¡¦s can be created on turn 1
- No new surface combat or bombardment TF¡¦s can be created on turn 1
- No new air combat TFs can be created on turn 1
- Game created invasion TF¡¦s can be diverted to other targets but only those outer bases on the periphery of the Allied held areas (ie ¡V no penetrations into Allied held areas ¡V example no attacks on Johnston, Kendari, Suva, Noumeau, Australia, etc)

Might as well play historical start.

Game Settings
- Single day turns
- Fog of war, weather, damage control on,
- historical first turn off
- player defined upgrades on
- vary setup off
- Dec 7th surprise on
- sub doctrines on for both
- Animation & Combat summaries on

IN ADDITION TO ABOVE GAME „³ If someone is interested in doing a fantasy CHS 157 game, I have some thoughts on making the game a little more challanging for the JAP player by modifying when hostilities actually start (post 12/7). Pure fantasy but willing to give it a try for FUN.

Let me know then I will post my email address

S!

Jaypea

While I agree fantasy games are overdone, some of this seems ridiculous as well.
Why would the KB need to go to Osaka? And why only one day of attacking at PH. It could done 2 or 3.
Clearly it could not loiter for a long time (historically) but it certainly could have done another day or 2.
 
And while first day attacks should be limited by LBA, it is not obvious other attacks need be. At the very least
an invasion supported by the KB should have no problem.

This is Jaypeas game, right?[:D]

Inclusion for houserules.

Invasions may only be attempted when within "normal" ranged attack LBA.
Invasions may be attempted if supported by at least 40 CV based attack aircraft.

Sorry but i agree with Jaypea for the rule of naval invasion within "extended radius" of LBA;
in order to prevent japanese invasion of Pago Pago from Kwajalein for example, completely unrealistic[8D];
i am myself looking for house rules to play a more realistic game and some seems interesting.
The last i imagined is to forgive use of air groups that have not the same command as the airfield they are; and no change of base command is allowed except in China in favour of China Command or China Expeditionnary Army;
this should perhaps prevent massive raids like 150 Sally, 100 Helen from Lae to PM or
500 B-24 from Ponape to Truk.[X(][X(]
Completely unrealistic too

ORIGINAL: rominet

Sorry but i agree with Jaypea for the rule of naval invasion within "extended radius" of LBA;
in order to prevent japanese invasion of Pago Pago from Kwajalein for example, completely unrealistic[8D];
i am myself looking for house rules to play a more realistic game and some seems interesting.
The last i imagined is to forgive use of air groups that have not the same command as the airfield they are; and no change of base command is allowed except in China in favour of China Command or China Expeditionnary Army;
this should perhaps prevent massive raids like 150 Sally, 100 Helen from Lae to PM or
500 B-24 from Ponape to Truk.[X(][X(]
Completely unrealistic too

Why do you an invasion of Pago Pago unrealistic?
Then your saying the Japanese didn't really have the intentions of invading Midway.

Hello All -

Thanks for showing interest in my PBEM game proposal. If you look at the HR's and you don't like most of them, then probably we are not the two folks who should be playing a PBEM game together [:)]. If you are OK with the rules and maybe want to make some minor changes to a select few or want a few additional rules then we are probably the right ones to be talking about a PBEM, OK?[:D]

I have spent some time thinking about the game and looking at previous PBEM AAR's and I feel these rules give me the type of game that I want to play. If you don't like them then no problem we don't need to play together.

So who is serious and is OK with the House rules above??

Let me know. I am in no rush and prefer to find the right partner here!

S! Jaypea

PS - Treespider, thanks for taking the time to look through my HR's. Probably we are not the right pair for this game and you are spot on with regard to the troll.

ORIGINAL: Jaypea


PS - Treespider, thanks for taking the time to look through my HR's. Probably we are not the right pair for this game and you are spot on with regard to the troll.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not a fantasy player myself....However I'm of the opinion if both sides play by HR #1, all of the other HR are really unnecessary.

Tried that in my first PBEM game (first and only so far) and was rewarded by having my opponent land over a dozen additional invasions in DEI PI on turn #1 that seem pretty unrealistic and unfair as there is no fog of war for Allies the first few months of the war  (ie Japs no exactly how weak all the Allied bases are).   This game is my attempt to keep something more in line with a historical type game that I am looking for.   ANd again your comments on trolls game versus the general are a genesis of several of the rules[;)].   You seem to be quite a good PBEM player and not sure if I am ready to play such an experienced player.   Really looking for more fo a beginner/intermediate player for my first real PBEM game.
 
Jaypea 

ORIGINAL: Jaypea

Tried that in my first PBEM game (first and only so far) and was rewarded by having my opponent land over a dozen additional invasions in DEI PI on turn #1 that seem pretty unrealistic and unfair as there is no fog of war for Allies the first few months of the war (ie Japs no exactly how weak all the Allied bases are).

IRL - they did. Interesting quote in "The Dutch Naval Air Force Against Japan" dealing with this whole foreknowledge issue -

So instead of an overt invasion, the IJN took steps to intensify covert intelligence operations throughout the East indies. A large fleet of approximately 500 Japanese fishing boats - manned by some 4,000 civilians, reservists and active-duty personnel - was assigned to the operations. To support this fleet, the Japanese set up entire fishing communities and fisheries throughout the NEI., which allowed their ships to move at will. In some instances Japanese submarines resupplied them.

As a result, the fishing boats were able to move freely. In the process, they often flagrantly violated Dutch territorial waters and fishery regulations to "fish" and dive for pearls near important military installations. When stopped and searched, many were often found with sophisticated sounding equipment, well-detailed charts of various harbors throughout the East indies and powerful radio equipment capable of transmitting all the way to Japan.

What is unrealistic is the ability of the Japanese player to move entire invasion fleets deep into the heart of the DEI/NEI unmolested using the magic move....and not necessarily the foreknowledge the Japanese player possesses. So to me places like Eastern Borneo, Celebes outside of Manado, Ambonia, Timor, Java, Sumatra, the Visayas would all be off limits to invasion fleets Turn 1.


IMO a better house rule is to not allow a Japanese Invasion fleet to approach/pass within 3-4 (180-240 miles) hexes of an Allied base on Turn 1.

This game is my attempt to keep something more in line with a historical type game that I am looking for. ANd again your comments on trolls game versus the general are a genesis of several of the rules[;)]. You seem to be quite a good PBEM player and not sure if I am ready to play such an experienced player. Really looking for more fo a beginner/intermediate player for my first real PBEM game.

Jaypea

I wouldn't say I'm good.

Hi Jaypea -

I started a game similar to what I think you are after. Physically possible, and historical, but with potentially very different Japanese plans from the outset.

We worked out a pretty extensive list of HRs, which haven't been that hard to manage, but I think are pretty good. Atoll stacking limits, forts limits, etc.

As far as the turn one invasion stuff - treespider is right. Japan had the intel, but they shouldn't get a free pass from the Dutch air force on the approached to DEI, especially south Bornea, Timor, Java. The HR we use for turn 1 invasions is:

First turn Japanese & Allied restrictions
1. No attacks on Allied bases more than 10 hexes from a Japanese starting base. Additionally, no Japanese transport TF may end turn 1 less than 5 hexes from any Allied base more than 10 hexes from a Japanese base.


This lets you hit Wake, and some others that were historically attacked. It also let you move things into position, but still gives Allies a (small) chance to react on turn 2-4.

If you want to see the full list just check out my AAR.

Good luck with your game!

Treespider and FK -

I stand corrected on the intel but as you say that "magic move" is quite annoying on turn one. HR's that restrict that type of gamey move is what I had in mind.

Thanks
Jaypea