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Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:28 pm
by Oldguard1970
I am unsure of the effect of bombardment attacks by LCU. Are these effects correct?
1. A bombarding LCU serves as a supply magnet and causes the game to push supply to the (unit?) (hex?)
2. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the enemy unit.
3. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the bombarding unit.
4. A bombarding unit is weaker on defense than a defending unit.
5. A bombarding unit suffers increases in fatigue and some disruption.
Thanks
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:46 pm
by wild_Willie2
am unsure of the effect of bombardment attacks by LCU. Are these effects correct?
1. A bombarding LCU serves as a supply magnet and causes the game to push supply to the (unit?) (hex?)
No, only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
2. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the enemy unit.
No, only combat improves experience.
3. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the bombarding unit.
No, same as above.
4. A bombarding unit is weaker on defense than a defending unit.
The effect of bombarments are rather weak in WITP, results depend on a large amound of factors. Overal I think that it doesn't matter WHO bombards in a standard situation. The amound of artillery only seems to matter if one side is attacking while the other side is defending, defensive arty reduces the AV of the attacking party more than visa versa because the defending side is supposed to be dug in.
5. A bombarding unit suffers increases in fatigue and some disruption.
No, only if you ARE bombarded then fatigue and some disruption increase.
Thanks
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:00 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
am unsure of the effect of bombardment attacks by LCU. Are these effects correct?
1. A bombarding LCU serves as a supply magnet and causes the game to push supply to the (unit?) (hex?)
No, only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
2. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the enemy unit.
No, only combat improves experience.
3. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the bombarding unit.
No, same as above.
4. A bombarding unit is weaker on defense than a defending unit.
The effect of bombarments are rather weak in WITP, results depend on a large amound of factors. Overal I think that it doesn't matter WHO bombards in a standard situation. The amound of artillery only seems to matter if one side is attacking while the other side is defending, defensive arty reduces the AV of the attacking party more than visa versa because the defending side is supposed to be dug in.
5. A bombarding unit suffers increases in fatigue and some disruption.
No, only if you ARE bombarded then fatigue and some disruption increase.
Thanks
i think i disagree with several of these answers (yeah, what else is new)...
1. - not sure - i've never noticed a difference
2. true - there is a die roll, but the bombarded units increase (slowly) over time.
3. Maybe... i think there is another die roll, but effects not as noticeable... bombardment IS combat.
4. Not heard this one before (re: poorer defense). A defending unit bombards the attacker anyway, so i tend to doubt it.
5. True - both bombarded and bombarding units have fatigue and disruption penalties according to tests run and reported on the forum some months ago.
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:14 pm
by USSAmerica
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
am unsure of the effect of bombardment attacks by LCU. Are these effects correct?
1. A bombarding LCU serves as a supply magnet and causes the game to push supply to the (unit?) (hex?)
No, only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
2. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the enemy unit.
No, only combat improves experience.
3. Bombarding an enemy unit improves the experience level of the bombarding unit.
No, same as above.
4. A bombarding unit is weaker on defense than a defending unit.
The effect of bombarments are rather weak in WITP, results depend on a large amound of factors. Overal I think that it doesn't matter WHO bombards in a standard situation. The amound of artillery only seems to matter if one side is attacking while the other side is defending, defensive arty reduces the AV of the attacking party more than visa versa because the defending side is supposed to be dug in.
5. A bombarding unit suffers increases in fatigue and some disruption.
No, only if you ARE bombarded then fatigue and some disruption increase.
Thanks
i think i disagree with several of these answers (yeah, what else is new)...
1. - not sure - i've never noticed a difference
2. true - there is a die roll, but the bombarded units increase (slowly) over time.
3. Maybe... i think there is another die roll, but effects not as noticeable... bombardment IS combat.
4. Not heard this one before (re: poorer defense). A defending unit bombards the attacker anyway, so i tend to doubt it.
5. True - both bombarded and bombarding units have fatigue and disruption penalties according to tests run and reported on the forum some months ago.
Some additions:
1. Bombardment attacks will consume supply, and thus will cause the supply requirement of the base to increase. The normal supply movement tries to keep the supply levels at 2X supply requirements. If it can do this, then conducting bombardment attacks will result in an increase in the supply stockpile at the base.
4. I have heard of this. Something on the lines of "Units that conduct a bombardment attack and are later subjected to an assault, Deliberate or Shock Attack, in the same turn have their defensive AV reduced." My problem is that I have been unable to find a reference to this in a quick scan of the manual. Until it can be quoted, let's keep it a "rumor status." [:D]
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:58 pm
by rtrapasso
4. I have heard of this. Something on the lines of "Units that conduct a bombardment attack and are later subjected to an assault, Deliberate or Shock Attack, in the same turn have their defensive AV reduced." My problem is that I have been unable to find a reference to this in a quick scan of the manual. Until it can be quoted, let's keep it a "rumor status."
it MIGHT be true - but i hadn't heard it before... of course, if you are more fatigued/disrupted due to conducting a bombardment, your defense will be down a tad.
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:11 pm
by Saso
only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
Sorry, a question a bit off topic about this answer.
Which kind of HQ is necessary to increase the stockpile? (Army HQ or is enough Corp HQ)
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:26 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Saso
only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
Sorry, a question a bit off topic about this answer.
Which kind of HQ is necessary to increase the stockpile? (Army HQ or is enough Corp HQ)
Any kind will increase supply draw - command HQ usually draws more supplies - in my experience.
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:53 pm
by Saso
Also Naval and Air HQ increase the stockpile?
Of course this is a generic question not specifically for ground combat.
Sorry again, I forgot to write it in the previous post and rtrapasso answered already [:)]
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:15 pm
by treespider
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Saso
only way to get MORE supply into a hex than is strictly needed for resupplying LCU's is by putting a HQ in that same hex, then you will get at least 20K of supply there (if it's available)
Sorry, a question a bit off topic about this answer.
Which kind of HQ is necessary to increase the stockpile? (Army HQ or is enough Corp HQ)
Any kind will increase supply draw - command HQ usually draws more supplies - in my experience.
Well technically you can manipulate supply levels with bombardment attacks. Here is how :
Turn 1 - Bombard - the supply requirement of the unit will increase and the code will ship more supplies to the unit to meet demand.
Turn 2 Rest the unit - the supply requirement having been increased the previous turn by bombarding will drop back down this turn leaving the unit with excess supply over the units requirement.
Turn 3 Attack - When you look at the unit this turn the requirement will be less than supply on hand. When the attatck is executed the requirement will increase and the code will have to ship less supply to the unit to meet the new requirement that is established from launching the attack.
If you rest too long the excess supply will eventually be taken from the unit and distributed to other bases and units.
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:07 pm
by Oldguard1970
Manly thanks to you all. I appreciate the information.
RE: Effects of LCU bombardment ?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:41 am
by Saso
I made a bombardment attack with three units at Manila and Bataan:
First Unit 16th Division: 5 days consecutives
Day 0
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 16
Fatigue: 36
Day 1
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 16
Fatigue: 35
Day 2
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 15
Fatigue: 36
Day 3
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 16
Fatigue: 36
Day 4
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 16
Fatigue: 35
Day 5
Exp: 70
Morale: 76
Disruption: 15
Fatigue: 36
The unit has recovered some disabled elements.
65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:48 am
by Saso
Second Unit 65th Brigade: 4 days consecutives
Day 0
Exp: 62
Morale: 51
Disruption: 21
Fatigue: 45
Day 1
Exp: 62
Morale: 51
Disruption: 20
Fatigue: 42
Day 2
Exp: 62
Morale: 51
Disruption: 19
Fatigue: 40
Day 3
Exp: 62
Morale: 51
Disruption: 19
Fatigue: 39
Day 4
Exp: 62
Morale: 51
Disruption: 17
Fatigue: 38
The units has recovered some disabled elements.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:53 am
by Saso
Third Unit 15th Mortar Battalion: 4 days consecutives
Day 0
Exp: 65
Morale: 55
Disruption: 27
Fatigue: 57
Day 1
Exp: 65
Morale: 55
Disruption: 26
Fatigue: 56
Day 2
Exp: 65
Morale: 55
Disruption: 26
Fatigue: 55
Day 3
Exp: 65
Morale: 55
Disruption: 25
Fatigue: 54
Day 4
Exp: 65
Morale: 55
Disruption: 25
Fatigue: 52
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:41 pm
by wild_Willie2
We can conclude from this experiment that the bombarding unit does not have it's disruption / fatigue increased??
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:46 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
We can conclude from this experiment that the bombarding unit does not have it's disruption / fatigue increased??
The original experiments were conducted with "pristine" unit - low disruption, low fatigue... there may be some limitation built in ( for a similar example: we see this with ships at sea - their SYS damage from running around increases until it reaches 50, then stops.)
EDIT: so, no, i don't think it can be said it doesn't happen - but certainly it
suggests that units with relatively high fatigue (40-50s) aren't particularly affected.
However, the best way to have conducted this experiment would be to go back to the first day, rerun the sequence with everyone just resting. Who knows, maybe fatigue would have decreased much more...
EDIT: iirc - the effects are not particularly marked, but are noticeable when you do parallel runs.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:48 pm
by herwin
ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
We can conclude from this experiment that the bombarding unit does not have it's disruption / fatigue increased??
I've been watching this in my own games, and bombarding doesn't seem to degrade the disruption/fatigue status of units.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:52 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: herwin
ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
We can conclude from this experiment that the bombarding unit does not have it's disruption / fatigue increased??
I've been watching this in my own games, and bombarding doesn't seem to degrade the disruption/fatigue status of units.
The effect is NOT dramatic - and the only way it is especially noticeable is to run in parallel (same unit, same days, one bombarding run, and repeat using rest) and compare fatigue/disruption at the end.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:09 pm
by Nomad
My experience is that Bombarding units with moderate to high fatigue and disruption will still lower them but at a much lower rate than resting units. And, they will not get them as low as resting units.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:41 pm
by Oldguard1970
Saso's test does not show a single increase in experience.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:17 pm
by USSAmerica
ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970
Saso's test does not show a single increase in experience.
His units are sending the artillery shells, not receiving them. The exp increase I've noticed is for troops that are on the receiving end.