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Last night I had one of the wildest battles ever. It seemed fitting to put a screeny of it here for your entertainment. Things were really getting mixed up-on both sides.

It occurred to me that many of you have had some awesome, wacky, or strange battle situations in CotA. Further, it seems that these items should be grouped together for easy viewing by fans and visitors alike. With views from spanning from the brilliant, to the ridiculous, this could be a rather entertaining thread. So, the next time you see a situation that is special in some way, take a minute to save it, so you can post it here later.

I'll start off with this one from the battle of Sidi Azigh (Clash of Armor). It is not quite a brilliant situation, nor ridiculous, but an incredible intertwined mess. Viewed at a normal zoomed in level, it was almost comical, as shells were coming from all directions. The gray and blue are Germans and Italian units, the brown and green are the South Africans, Kiwi's, and the Brits.

Now Cedric, the counterattack NOW!

But sir we have already commited every thing.

Cedric what about the kitchen sink???

I'm sorry sir it was over run by and Italian motor car. [:D]

I like that scenario, though I might make a variation that lasts a couple of days longer to see how the crazy melee's this scenario creates play out to the bitter end. Maybe put in Exit Victory Locs for each side- see who can actually extricate their forces (or see who was reaaaallly surrounded after all [;)]).

Yea pbear, that was about it-but I did win with the CW in that one. Sometimes the kitchen sink does the trick.


Franklin Nimitz

I don't have a book giving the gritty details of this battle, but I know that the CW were forced to withdraw. The 7th armored bde was nearly destroyed. I'm not sure (but think so), that this is where/when Bloody Sunday (edit-oops, maybe "day of the dead") occurred. After the CW withdraw, the DAK and Areti conducted a head-long charge into the Allied lines-both sides suffered horribly. That was when Rommel decided he was safe to conduct his "race to the wire" move.

Exit points always make things more interesting, but in this case; where, how, and why?

I'm looking forward to seeing some of your unusual battle/unit scenes.

The way I was considering modifying the scenario wouldn't necessarily be [strictly] historical, but mainly to provide additional time to see how the melee turns out. I've played the scenario a few times where things were still hot n' heavy at scenario end. My thoughts were along the lines of adding maybe 2 more days of time (end = 2300 D5 say), but no add'l reinforcements and the same low level of supply (30% I think) at end of the current game. Then, add exit locs to the N/NE (big points for Allies- this simulates a relief of Tobruk), and to the SE (consolation prize- simulates extricating your remaining forces, and retiring back towards Egypt to fight another day). For the Axis, they'd get big points for exiting S (dash to the wire), and their 'consolation prize' withdrawal would be to the NW.

Isn't that -roughly speaking- about what the respective side's goals/alternatives were historically?

Oh, wish list item: How about when saving the game, a "save as scenario template" option exist? I.e.- no (or just keep current) VP locs, no reinforcement schedule (or keep what's current), but it saves all current unit locations and states. Raw material for a campaign game really. Even neater- link an "auto end" VP condition to this 'save as template'. I'm not asking much... [8|]

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

Isn't that -roughly speaking- about what the respective side's goals/alternatives were historically?

In general, I would say "yes". However, it clearly is better for the CW to exit towards Tobruk rather than to the south. This raises the question, can different exit points have different values?

Your suggestion would work for the Axis too. We would be overlooking (with hindsight) the error of Rommel not finishing off the 7th Armored and turning on Tobruk. I'm not sure, but if the DAK took the Rift Valley route to Egypt, then the exit would have been to the east. A southerly exit could represent the pursuing of the 7th Armored. Which one should get more points is debatable; my vote would be for the southerly exit.
The move towards Tobruk by the DAK in the time frame of this battle should actually be viewed as a defeat IMHO.

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
It occurred to me that many of you have had some awesome, wacky, or strange battle situations in CotA.

Good idea.
I'll follow on to post the link to the link to a message I posted a couple of weeks ago :
A Stubborn Defense.

I really pictured Lance Corporal Martin manning it's Bren, with two magazines left, while Italian Infantry was carefully moving towards his entrenched position.

Cheers,

JeF.

LOL-good one.  I guess the last man is wounded?

These are great screenshots, and I like those map patterns.

I think Franklin's idea of creating a variant that extends this scenario a couple of days is a good one. I toyed with the idea myself, but adding the exit conditions seemed a bit artificial to me so I decided to end the game around the time where if Rommel was going to "dash to the wire" he had better get on with it.

Another option with this one is to start where this one ended historically and do the Kiwis counterattack along the Sidi Rezegh Ridge.

If someone unfamiliar with the game system were to glance at this thread they might get the impression that trying to manage this unit density would be maddness - not knowing that actual commands are usually given to the HQ's, or about 1/5 of the unit population. The beauty of Pausible Real-Time is you can issue orders and go do the laundry or mow the lawn and let the AI work out the implimentation of your orders.[:D]

SERGEANT-MAJOR!

Sir!

Take that hill.

Sir! (snappy salute about turn march) [:D]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

If someone unfamiliar with the game system were to glance at this thread they might get the impression that trying to manage this unit density would be maddness - not knowing that actual commands are usually given to the HQ's, or about 1/5 of the unit population.

True. As the CW player in the above screen shot, I had slightly over a half dozen HQ's or task forces to issue orders to. There were a few more units under the divisional HQ only for special defensive placing-after placed, they are on their own.

The management of friendly forces in the above battle were not the challenge-the challenge is the enemy force (AI) countering every one of my brilliant moves-and of course, not having enough troops to really teach the AI a lesson. Issuing orders to the various task forces is easy; issuing the correct orders to achieve victory is not.

Edit--Removed incorrect sentence.

So, did you ever get an entire division together for an attack-under the division HQ? I haven't, so I put it together. I used the 2nd PZ in Elasson Rear Guard. The attack force was ordered into a multiple line formation with 3000 m front by 3000 depth (I know, a little shallow, but needed the screen space. I had to do a little bit of work to get the CW forces to retire so I could use the Field w/o interference.

The next 3 screen shots are a division deployed by the division HQ AI. All I did was to give it a form up position (FUP) and objective-the Dv HQ did all the rest.

Here is another shot of the same deployment zoomed one more level. I have the unit facing showing-again set by the DvHQ. Note the division HQ near the front (above shot). The artillery and supply units are still far to the rear. The regimental mortars are in the attack line up slightly to the rear.

This is the same division on a defend in an arrow formation. Again, I just gave a central location and a 3000 by 3000 meter zone. It is interesting that the Dv HQ (AI) does not just use the ordered AO size, nor does it stick strictly to a geometric shape, but actually utilizes terrain features to support its ordered formation.

I had another look before letting the battle roll and saw something else worth showing. Objective and paths are on now, so you can see which units are going to move and where-although all the planning is apparently not done to the company level. You can see which units will be moving first as those particular ones have the FUP indicator (bear paw)-the others will be stationary for a while.

The two sub objectives are those assigned to the regimental HQ's. Soon, the Bn's will get there objectives and then it will be ready.
I may have to do one more screeny of this.
All of this could be done with a Corp also

The AI is indeed, intelligent.

I've used the XXX Korps in the Olympus scenario in a huge attack column down the road [[kind of]] all at once. The FUP was just a nominal point adjacent to obj. Functionally, it was the "default" command to units- unless I've detached bns/regts for other tasks, you should be going down the road shooting as you go. It worked pretty good actually, if you limit your attaching/detaching to once at night to minimize replans. Arty (which I sometimes would consolidate under a spare HQ) and bases needed to be handled separately too.

How much time did it take from order to attack jump off?

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

How much time did it take from order to attack jump off?

The best I can recall, it was about 6 hours from the time of the initial orders-it was a fairly inefficient way to get across the river. It was interesting to watch though. It did use the engineers next to the bridge, but units (recon) were crossing before any real de-priming occurred-and the bridge did not blow. This initial attack looked pretty good overall. Using Bn or regimental task forces is a much quicker way of doing the same thing.

As everything was set, I decided to try a long distance attack order for the division. I set the FUP about 5 k's from the exit point in the south and let it roll. I did not interfere with anything. It was interesting to watch, the division split up and took different routes with many small engagements occurring. The game ended before the final attack even formed up due to the earlier experimentation time used up.

Here is a shot from the Maleme campaign. The FJ division gave a good go to take Khania, but looked like they would need some help. The 5th Geb had gotten into position just in case the need arose.

The highlighted units are a large part of the 5 Grb Division. The other grey units are from the 5th and the blue are the FJ units. All the others are Greek, Kiwi, and Brits.

You think the Allied line will hold?[;)]

This is a "cleaner" shot of the same AO.

From the same campaign; one Geb MG company was sent forward to block an Allied withdraw. For 3 days they held off all attacks (until the end of the game) alone with some impressive results. There are 8 crosses showing where various Allied units (company's and platoons) were destroyed/surrender/disbanded.

Just goes to show what a good unit can do when put in a good spot.

Edit: This is a night time shot-the crosses are a little difficult to see on this reduced picture-one is below the Geb Company. They were in the same general location the whole time, but the formation and facing changed many times.