Matrix Games Forums

I play Prussia vs 6 Hard AI in 1.02K
I DOW against minors :
S Pom, Lausitz, Thuringia, Mecklemb

When the local garison disapear, I want to place 1 Infantry factor inside the city.
So I create a Garison with 1 I in each one.

After that, I moved my corps out this minor and :
[X(]
In fact, the Straslund garison was created / or moved (?) in Stettin !!!!!
Same for Weimar : in Leipzig !!

And this minor stay to France (S Pom) and Austria (Meckl.)
with a collapse of war ! [:@]

I have to reconquest them !!

You need to maintain a corps in a minor country or the war will lapse, a garrison isn't enough. Your garrisons move because they are repatriated upon the lapse of war.

 
It's new ????
I'd never seen that before !

ORIGINAL: La Provence
 
It's new ????
I'd never seen that before !

Rule 6.15

It's not new, it was in the original board game too.

David's right. This can be confusing because if you are at war with the MP controlling the minor, then you can conq them without keeping a corps there, just by leaving a garrison. But if you're just at war with the minor, not the MP, you have to leave the corps there until control changes.

Nathan

No promises here guys BUT what about a prompt warning you of a possible lapse before the end of your land phase, giving you the option to go back and fix?
 
 

Actually, I didn't have to do this in a game.

I'm playing Austria and at the start of the game I DOW'ed Romagna:

Jan 1805: Moved corps to Romagna, assualted city. Got in, destroyed garrison, left 1 I garrison.
Feb 1805: Moved corps back to Venetia.
March 1805: Dip Phase: I have Romagna conquered.

We are in the Reinf phase of March 1805 currently.

Marshall: Yes, that is not a bad idea. One thing I have noticed is that "prompts" need to be fixed. There are too many prompts were you don't need them and not enough where you do (see the Jimmer transport naval non-move in another thread). I dislike not being able to click on an area that a battle is going to take place if I'm not engaged in the battle and especially if I am but I am waiting for a battle file. I know these are little things which I can TOTALLY live with, I'm just saying.

Neverman:
 
Appreciate the info! Nothing it too little. As the game progresses, I can spend more time on the little things. She's a bit more stable now and with some AI fixes and security additions, maybe I can get to some of this fun stuff.
 
 

La Provence,

This is very common until you have some method of keeping track. Let me explain:

The rules for conquering a minor are that you had to have held the capital (unbesieged, etc.) for an entire month. Entire month means from the end of your previous land phases until the end of the current land phases.

The rule for "lapse of war" is that if you do not have a corps counter in the nation (anywhere -- it doesn't have to be in the capital) during the diplomacy phase, the war will lapse.

If you look at these two in a cursory manner, they appear the same. Hold capital = have corps in nation, right?

No, not really. You have to hold the capital for a WHOLE month. Now, if you conquered the capital last month, then you can leave a factor in the capital this month and move your corps out. But, understand that the reason this works is because lapse of war is checked during the diplomacy phase, and that has already passed for this month.

HOWEVER, let's say you tried to break in last month, and failed to win. But, the controlling player moves after you do. If the garrison forages to death during HIS move, it will appear to you that you have control. You do, but you did NOT have it DURING YOUR MOVE. So, you cannot meet the criteria to conquer it this month. If you leave the nation with all corps counters, the game will check whether you had control from land phase to land phase, and discover you did not. So, the war will lapse.

I found this hard to remember. You attack 5 things, and win 2 and see one more fall to foraging after your move. But, when your next land phase comes up, they LOOK exactly the same!

There are then two choices:

1)  Always leave the corps counter in place until control comes to you, or
2)  Find some way of reliably keeping track.

#1 is kind of crude, but always works and doesn't require any special steps.

#2 requires a "trick" of some kind. The problem is that we only have game mechanics to keep track.

My solution to this was to ALWAYS drop one factor out during my LAND MOVE the first time I have full control of the capital city, and DO NOT MOVE THAT CORPS during that same turn. Never drop a factor during reinforcement. This guarantees that, barring war or something, I will alway have control at the time when I need it.

How it works can be shown by examining the two scenarios:

First, if I actually broke in and won during, say, April, I would drop my factor then (and move that corps no more that turn -- automatic, since I've already moved it). So, come the next turn, I am free to move, because I will have had control during the whole period "April land phase through May land phase". Easy enough.

In the second case, I try to break in in April and fail. But, France (the owner) moves after me, and he forages it to death during his move. At this point in time, I have a corps counter in the area, but no factors in the city. I also did NOT have control during my land phase of April, so I will NOT gain control of the country during May. During reinforcement, I resist the urge to drop a factor in the city. If I do this, I won't know for sure whether I conquered the capital last turn or, as is the case, that it foraged to death.

Then, during my May land movement phase, I drop a factor in the city, and leave my corps present in the country.

During June's diplo phase, I still have a corps present, so war does not lapse. When June's movement phase arrives, I am free to move out. This is signified by the fact that I have a factor in the city already, before movement.

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

HOWEVER, let's say you tried to break in last month, and failed to win. But, the controlling player moves after you do. If the garrison forages to death during HIS move, it will appear to you that you have control. You do, but you did NOT have it DURING YOUR MOVE. So, you cannot meet the criteria to conquer it this month. If you leave the nation with all corps counters, the game will check whether you had control from land phase to land phase, and discover you did not. So, the war will lapse.

It's the case !
The garison factor disapeared BEFORE my Land Phase so I was mistaken !

BUT, the two minors became FREE possession (France and Austria) SO I can't re-DOW on them ! ...... Or DOW on France and Austria [&:]
Very bad situation and big disappointment.

Another case, in the same game :
 
I'm (Prussia) in war with France
I declare war to Palatinate and invade the minor, put a corps in the capital area but outside.
Then a french corps attack my corps (outside the capital) :
At the end of the battle : French corps was destroy (only 2I !!) BUT I broke by moral [:@] and :
My corps retreat outside the minor and there was a lapse of war because no remaining corps in the minor !!!!
The minor are now Free GB and impossibility for me to DOW !
Very curious result, is'nt it ?

This practice is absurd !
If you have to retreat for any reason outside the minor, immediatly you have "Lapse of War" !

This could be after a battle, and a defeat must not cause a definitive lapse of war. Without chance to counter-attack.

In the previous exemple (Palatinat) : I wait France to conquer Palatinat (She is at war with GB) AND after that, I could conquer it [:'(]

I thing that the game should have to wait a complete attacker land phase before declare a "Lapse of War" .
If the attacker does 'nt return inside the minor.......... OK.

BUT in the 3 Lapse of War I suffered, the game did'nt let me the chance to pursue the war !!!

ORIGINAL: La Provence

This practice is absurd !
If you have to retreat for any reason outside the minor, immediatly you have "Lapse of War" !

This could be after a battle, and a defeat must not cause a definitive lapse of war. Without chance to counter-attack.

In the previous exemple (Palatinat) : I wait France to conquer Palatinat (She is at war with GB) AND after that, I could conquer it [:'(]

I thing that the game should have to wait a complete attacker land phase before declare a "Lapse of War" .
If the attacker does 'nt return inside the minor.......... OK.

BUT in the 3 Lapse of War I suffered, the game did'nt let me the chance to pursue the war !!!

You could alternatively, not DOW on a minor that can be defended by a nation that is at war with you.

You're trying to change the game to meet your expectations rather than changing your tactics?

The game is designed to not let you prosecute the war after it lapses. Be prepared, bring more corps, be careful with DOWs, I can go on and on but I don't think it will help.

Lapse of war is definitely something you have to think about, since (as you've seen) it doesn't happen only if you decide not to prosecute the war. Indeed, one of the reasons to accept control of a minor and run its defense vigorously is the chance of driving the invader back over the border, in which case the minor is yours free and clear.

Nathan

I agree....
 
I don't want to change the rules of course, but my surprise was only in my last and first game with 1.02K.
 
I never saw before "Lapse of War" so radical !
 
But effectively, I think that this could be done some nice development [8|]