Matrix Games Forums

Gentlemen,
I think we've all witnessed how quickly this game becomes a war of air attrition with both players "bulking" a few forward HQs with 7-10 fighter units. Good Soviet players will not lose in '41, whether standard WIR or Possum 6, partly because by mid Aug '41 they will bring forward a "trained-to-death" Sov airforce and "bulk" the fighter units into a couple of HQs. The German player has no choice but to respond in kind and then wear down his fighter force.

I'm just wondering if a houserule limiting each player to max 4 fighter units per HQ wouldn't present a lot of imponderables to both players and reduce the role of airpower, thereby increasing the role of ground maneuver?
My Sov opponents always say this would be a substantial disadvantage for the Sovs. Really? How so, can someone lay this out?
If both players have only max 4 fighter units in their forward HQs my gut feeling is that the game becomes more open, more suspenseful due to overlapping CAP, requires more planning, and above all, more dispersion of fighter assets. Or, do we really like a game where 700 fighters take on 1000 fighters, per battle?
Admittedly, I havent playtested this idea, but can anyone demonstrate how this would outright ruin the game for the Sovs in '41?
Obviously such a houserule would be "tricky" to enforce [8D]

The air war is not perfect but restricts like this will have different effects at different stages of the war.
The air war is a game in its self and takes alot to master and can very unforgiving when mistakes are made.

I have only had 2 hard times against the VVS in 41. Once was the 1st time I played possum. This was due to very poor decisions made by me by not understanding the ablities of the Soviet machines but I managed to change this around before 42 summer. 2nd time was when playing Tom1939 when I skipped Germany's 1st turn. I believe I made a mistake in this game with the Fw's ( I forgot I had computer upgrading turned off leaving all my fw's in the reserve pool when the VVS was comitted) and I was also very passive when I needed to be aggressive.

I regard Josan's and Tom1939's air defences they toughest I have come up against but its best if I let them explain how they do it.


If you want to limit the air war I would limit plane production and only allow aircraft able to airlift to aitlift. This will make a very different air war

I think we've all witnessed how quickly this game becomes a war of air attrition with both players "bulking" a few forward HQs with 7-10 fighter units. Good Soviet players will not lose in '41, whether standard WIR or Possum 6, partly because by mid Aug '41 they will bring forward a "trained-to-death" Sov airforce and "bulk" the fighter units into a couple of HQs. The German player has no choice but to respond in kind and then wear down his fight

I love it when the Soviets do this. I only have to worrie about the VVS for 1 week because it is retreated again after its defeated.

I'm just wondering if a houserule limiting each player to max 4 fighter units per HQ wouldn't present a lot of imponderables to both players and reduce the role of airpower, thereby increasing the role of ground maneuver?
My Sov opponents always say this would be a substantial disadvantage for the Sovs. Really? How so, can someone lay this out?

Both airfields will be picked off 1 at a time. The side with the greatest range will win. Bomber losses will be huge if other tactics are used.

Or, do we really like a game where 700 fighters take on 1000 fighters, per battle?
Admittedly, I havent playtested this idea, but can anyone demonstrate how this would outright ruin the game for the Sovs in '41?

This tactic only works against German players who have not experienced this. After they have encountered it they will learn and counter this tactic

ORIGINAL: Endsieg

Gentlemen,
I think we've all witnessed how quickly this game becomes a war of air attrition with both players "bulking" a few forward HQs with 7-10 fighter units. Good Soviet players will not lose in '41, whether standard WIR or Possum 6, partly because by mid Aug '41 they will bring forward a "trained-to-death" Sov airforce and "bulk" the fighter units into a couple of HQs. The German player has no choice but to respond in kind and then wear down his fighter force.

I'm just wondering if a houserule limiting each player to max 4 fighter units per HQ wouldn't present a lot of imponderables to both players and reduce the role of airpower, thereby increasing the role of ground maneuver?
My Sov opponents always say this would be a substantial disadvantage for the Sovs. Really? How so, can someone lay this out?
If both players have only max 4 fighter units in their forward HQs my gut feeling is that the game becomes more open, more suspenseful due to overlapping CAP, requires more planning, and above all, more dispersion of fighter assets. Or, do we really like a game where 700 fighters take on 1000 fighters, per battle?
Admittedly, I havent playtested this idea, but can anyone demonstrate how this would outright ruin the game for the Sovs in '41?
Obviously such a houserule would be "tricky" to enforce [8D]

It would help axis. Limiting numbers favors the one side with quality and range, the nazis. It is very hard to force a good german commander to fight an attrition air war with the red air force.

First you have to survive the german airfield attacks moving in to the front. Before late soviet aircraft that easily can be 2 airfields full of fighters. Then the germans pull out of harms way if there is not something really important on the ground to defend.

My experience is only to la fighters, as I never use yaks in great numbers (as I can have 10 fighter per hq not 7-8, and I can attack).

So fighter massing is only a problem in 41, but it balances out the game as that is the only soviet chance to see 42.

The air will be always german strongpoint. As better soviet aircraft comes, the german air production nearly equals the soviet.

There is no need to limit the soviets in this game, it is hard enough for them. Before 44 full soviet figter hq's are easily destroyed. The question is not the if, but with how much losses.