Matrix Games Forums

...with apologies to Ambrose Bierce...

I'm not sure if I understand what happened. Were you playing as the CSA? Did you have militia mobilized as well as the 4000 men? Are you saying that there were only 4000 committed on the side that took 10000 losses, or on the side that caused the 10000 losses? In either case, assuming the units in the area could retreat, I can't see how you'd take that many losses. If there were 2 infantry units attacking, they'd each only get to fire once, so at most they could do 4000 losses. If they were the only ones committed, the most you should lose would be 4000 men (again, unless units in the area did not have a retreat path, in which case more men could be lost then were actually committed).

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I'm not sure if I understand what happened.

Let's go through it by the numbers.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Were you playing as the CSA?

Yes.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Did you have militia mobilized as well as the 4000 men?

No militia were mobilized. Only the 4000 men. Two infantry units led by McCown.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Are you saying that there were only 4000 committed on the side that took 10000 losses, or on the side that caused the 10000 losses?

The former. See above. Sherman ended up with ~70k committed, IIRC.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
In either case, assuming the units in the area could retreat, I can't see how you'd take that many losses.

They had a valid retreat path, to Staunton. The battle occurred in Winchester, VA. Sherman's Army of the Potomac marched in from Manassas. I originally had Wade Hampton with seven or eight cavalry units in the region, as well, but I sent them away during my reaction movement. They were not involved in the battle, but prevented the overrun of the region.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
If there were 2 infantry units attacking, they'd each only get to fire once, so at most they could do 4000 losses.

Not the issue, as the above hopefully clarifies.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
If they were the only ones committed, the most you should lose would be 4000 men (again, unless units in the area did not have a retreat path, in which case more men could be lost then were actually committed).

Agreed. However, as the results show, this is not the case. At least with respect to what the game displays. During the battle, attritional hits continued to increment losses against my forces, and there were at least two regular hits per unit scored, in addition to the attritional results. On one of the hits, McCown was wounded. It wasn't until after Engagement 2, and McCown's wounding that the battle finally ended, with each man killed 2.5 times over.

I have no issue with the bottom line results, since given the relative numbers and leadership abilities of the antagonists, my forces should have been destroyed. However, I thought it odd, and worthy of your attention, that the engine is displaying the losses incorrectly in this situation.

Did the final results list just 2 infantry units destroyed (and the leader hit)? Did shots continue after both units were already hit twice (I thought this was blocked from happening)? There are cases where the losses can get off a little, but I've never seen anything this off before. If you've got a save, that would help.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Did the final results list just 2 infantry units destroyed (and the leader hit)?

That's correct.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Did shots continue after both units were already hit twice (I thought this was blocked from happening)?

I believe that there were about five hits, including the one that laid low McCown. I know it was at least four, but it may have only been four.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
There are cases where the losses can get off a little, but I've never seen anything this off before. If you've got a save, that would help.

I could send you the file, and the password (if necessary). Since it was a PBEM game, would you want the save prior to the situation and a step by step to attempt to duplicate? Or, would you want the save afterwards? The one that I would have sent to Erik? Both? To what address should I send it?

I'll take both if possible. Send to 2by3@2by3games.com. Hopefully you just took 4 hits. Why the attrition numbers kept going up to cause it to report 10k men lost I can't say. The attrition variable should never end a battle over 50, so hopefully the bad report of the number of men lost should not have any impact on the game, and is just a display/report issue. If you can repeat the bug from a save, it could help us figure out why the number of men was off. It shouldn't ever end up reporting more than 500 men lost then the actual number of men in the battle given the way the tracking system accounts for attrition, so the number lost should have been somewhere between 4000 and 4500 if I understand how the system is supposed to work.

Thanks Joel! Files have been sent. My password is in the email I sent, along with instructions on how to (hopefully) duplicate the problem. You'll have to get Erik's password from him, should you need it.

Got the saves, duplicated the bug, sent it to Gary. It appears from several tests that it correctly only hit 4 times (2 units each hit twice). For some reason, the casualty count kept going up but attrition was not being shown on the rollover text even though it appears by the casualty count that attrition is being added. Hopefully with the repeatable save he can figure out what was causing the casualty count to be wrong. I'm guessing this is just a display issue, but hopefully Gary will get to the bottom of it. Thanks for the repeatable save.