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It's touched upon briefly in the previous "Mobile to Tuscaloosa" thread, but I feel that this deserves its own thread.

After playing through a number of games in my first week of ownership, I've noticed a number of "dead spots" on the map. These are regions that seem to be nearly inpenetrable to other units, no matter what the season, MP remaining, etc.

Now, in most if not all of these cases, I accept that it may be WAD, and I just find myself with the worst possible combination of leaders and conditions that prevent me from ever entering the region, or very rarely being able to do so.

That said, given the game is new, I'm also open to there being hidden errors that make it more difficult than it should be.

Finally, if these aren't bugs, then there are ideal ways of doing it-- so please, use this thread to advocate your best solutions for entering these "Bermuda Triangles" of the American Civil War.

Anyway, here's *my* list of dead spots that I've encountered:

1. Joplin, MO. Especially from Fayetteville, AR, but I also notice trouble from Springfield, MO. There are no terrain issues at play there, so it's a mystery.

2. Van Buren, AR.

3. Ft. Jackson, LA to St. James, LA.

4. Ft. St. Philip, LA to New Orleans, LA. *VERY* difficult to ever make that move, even with an AC present.

5. Huntington, WV.

6. Monroe, WV.

7. Pike, KY.

8. Asheville, NC to Toccoa, GA.

9. Dickson, TN. As CSA, forget ever reacting into an attack on Dickson from Nashville-- even with Lee as an AC, I never got the ability to move any units into Dickson in the reaction phase.

10. Gallatin, TN. Okay, this is a special case-- it's easy to get in there, but nearly impossible to get out. Unfortunately, I'm writing from notes and not the map in front of me, but IIRC, the Union can block in CSA units in Gallatin from crossing over the Cumberland River into Nashville or Murfreesboro-- yet the Cumberland River isn't navigable in the game in the area south of Gallatin! In that situation, the only way to get CSA units out of Gallatin is to invade the region immediately to the east of Gallatin.

Anyway, Gallatin strikes me as a death-trap cul-de-sac for the CSA. Perhaps WAD, but frequently a pain.

That's it, to start. Any other regions on the map exceedingly difficult to enter?

The main thing you need to remember, is this part of Rule 9.1.1

Units not moving across a road or rail side will spend the cost for the area they are leaving or entering, whichever cost is higher.

Understanding the implications of this rule will allow you to see the cause of most of the difficulties that you are encountering.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
1. Joplin, MO. Especially from Fayetteville, AR, but I also notice trouble from Springfield, MO. There are no terrain issues at play there, so it's a mystery.

Springfield and Fayetteville are both Mountain Terrain, so moving between either of them and Joplin will cause a force to pay the Mountain terrain cost, as there are no roads between them and Joplin.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
2. Van Buren, AR.

Mountain Terrain. No roads in, or out, and rivers on the borders of three of the six bordering regions. Only 2 PP, no resources, pop, or any other reason to ever go there. Best way to enter, if you feel a pressing need to do so, is by boat, from the Arkansas River.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
3. Ft. Jackson, LA to St. James, LA.

I feel your pain, here. You would think that a fort guarding the mouth of the most important river trade route of the 19th Century Western Hemisphere would at least have a road to it. However, swamp to swamp and alas, the road winding through St James on toward New Orleans gets just >this< close to Ft. Jackson...[;)]

Maybe the US felt it was safer if nobody could get to and from it, in case it fell, and supplied the fort by ship?

ORIGINAL: davekinva
4. Ft. St. Philip, LA to New Orleans, LA. *VERY* difficult to ever make that move, even with an AC present.

Swampt to swamp. See above.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
5. Huntington, WV.

Only forest, but no roads. Of the six adjoining regions, 3 are mountains, 3 are forest, with one of the forests separated by a river. Much easier to move into, and from, on the Union side. Best to use river transport, as with Van Buren.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
6. Monroe, WV.

Mountains, with no roads. If you can spare a cavalry init and a decent cavalry leader (yeah...right...) to stick in the region, then it threatens two rail line regions in VA. However, the threat is minimized somewhat if those regions still have their unmobilized militia and a spare leader in them.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
7. Pike, KY.

One of the least accessible (and least important) regions of the game. The only time I've ever seen it change hands, is when Kentucky goes permanently to one side or the other, or when the EP is declared. Otherwise, it will likely, and for good reason, remain unclaimed. Knott is a similar situation, though it at least borders Marion, and like Monroe, poses a potential, if fairly insignificant threat.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
8. Asheville, NC to Toccoa, GA.

Toccoa is mountain with no roads.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
9. Dickson, TN. As CSA, forget ever reacting into an attack on Dickson from Nashville-- even with Lee as an AC, I never got the ability to move any units into Dickson in the reaction phase.

You need to have leaders with 4 Inf to move infantry into, during a reaction phase. 3+1+1 = 5 for the movement cost during reaction into a battle there. Artillery needs a leader with 3 Art to likewise move. In other words, your best guys.

ORIGINAL: davekinva
10. Gallatin, TN. Okay, this is a special case-- it's easy to get in there, but nearly impossible to get out. Unfortunately, I'm writing from notes and not the map in front of me, but IIRC, the Union can block in CSA units in Gallatin from crossing over the Cumberland River into Nashville or Murfreesboro-- yet the Cumberland River isn't navigable in the game in the area south of Gallatin! In that situation, the only way to get CSA units out of Gallatin is to invade the region immediately to the east of Gallatin.

Anyway, Gallatin strikes me as a death-trap cul-de-sac for the CSA. Perhaps WAD, but frequently a pain.

Gallatin to Nashville is across the navigable portion of the Cumberland. Gallatin to Murfreesboro is not. You can move directly to/from the latter, but you cannot retreat across a river, unless you have transports in the river region. Since you can't have transports to help you Gallatin to Murfreesboro then you need to be extra careful. Movement between Gallatin and Murfreesboro is similar to movement between Harpers Ferry and Washington DC, with the default method being along the road through Livingston, because of the movement point costs. However, it is possible to make the move (but not the retreat) directly if you need to, without going through Livingston.

Good thread choice. When I first started, it took me a bit of digging, experimenting and reading the rules, before I figured out the answers for these same questions. Joplin case still catches me off guard, almost every game, when playing the Confederates.

JaMiAM, thank you so much for your thorough answers. . . wow, really, thanks!

My follow-up comments:
-- Obviously, a lot of those regions are unimportant, thankfully.  It's just that there are times when the other guys go there, sometimes in force, and I'm stuck with a nearby threat that I have a seriously tough time dealing with.  Still, WAD, so no real room to gripe ("Waaaah, geography not fair!"  

-- Thanks for the tips on Dickson.  That's a hugely important piece of real estate for the CSA, but very tough to defend unless you're camping in that spot (and it's a lousy spot to camp).  Nashville is a great centrally-located spot for reaction movement, but I guess you just have to load up on the best leaders (Yeah, lots of 4 inf leaders for the CSA in the early game, NOT .

-- Gallatin: Okay, I couldn't remember the distinction between Gallatin-Nashville and Gallatin-Murfreesboro. . . but that said (and I'm going by memory; you probably have the game open!), I recall having similar problems in getting across the river at Gallatin-Murfreesboro if Union forces flank Gallatin to the east (Livingston?) and west (?).  I'll try to replicate my problem tonight.

Again, thanks for taking the time to address my questions, and offer helpful hints.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for that rulebook cite. That's a HUGELY important rule. A newbie like myself can be forgiven for questioning the logic of why it costs so much to move from mountain to clear terrain, but the rules basically say, "whatever the worst number possible is, that's the number you're stuck with." I guess the logic is that for game purposes you're considered to be in the *center* of the region, so you have to move through the terrain of the hex you occupy regardless of where you are going.

Not quite intuitive at first glance, but makes sense when you think about it (especially considering the game's scale).

 

Way to go James, great explaination. The only black hole (cant move) we found latley was Darlinington SC to Charlotte NC, I planned Grants attack there, thats been corrected, but it hurt then.

[8D]
Jon

By the way, regarding Dickson, the cost I mentioned is for non-winter months. In the winter it climbs to 6 for a reaction move, making it impossible for any infantry to get in. Only artillery led by a 4 leader, and cavalry lead by a 3+ leader can do it then.

Question! Since each turn is a month of real time. Shouldn't a unit be allowed to move at least one area, when it doesn't have the movement points but is stacked with a leader. I don't know how well that would work for WbtS.

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Way to go James, great explaination. The only black hole (cant move) we found latley was Darlinington SC to Charlotte NC, I planned Grants attack there, thats been corrected, but it hurt then.

[8D]
Jon

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Question! Since each turn is a month of real time. Shouldn't a unit be allowed to move at least one area, when it doesn't have the movement points but is stacked with a leader. I don't know how well that would work for WbtS.

They can if they are both friendly territories. The problem arises when you try to move into enemy or neutral regions, or during reaction movement. These cases are stated in the rules on movement.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
They can if they are both friendly territories. The problem arises when you try to move into enemy or neutral regions, or during reaction movement. These cases are stated in the rules on movement.

Exactly - moving into enemy territory requires a plan and coordination and initiative (and aggressiveness) which not all commanders had in abundant quantities.

Regards,

- Erik

I would have to agree to that. Thanks for the answer guys. Read the movements rules but had a senior moment -I think.[:D]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
They can if they are both friendly territories. The problem arises when you try to move into enemy or neutral regions, or during reaction movement. These cases are stated in the rules on movement.

Exactly - moving into enemy territory requires a plan and coordination and initiative (and aggressiveness) which not all commanders had in abundant quantities.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

By the way, regarding Dickson, the cost I mentioned is for non-winter months. In the winter it climbs to 6 for a reaction move, making it impossible for any infantry to get in. Only artillery led by a 4 leader, and cavalry lead by a 3+ leader can do it then.

You know, while that's consistent with the rules I think this is probably TOO tough a restriction.

Essentially, this confluence of rigid rules and game mechanics makes a historically very heavily-defended spot (Fts. Henry & Donelson) essentially indefensible.

I don't know if I'd change it, given that the rules work so well for all the other places on the map. But in this case, it's a tough pill to swallow (I mean, we're talking about Western Tennessee here, not the highest peaks of Appalachia).

Well, that's only for a reaction move (i.e. moving in less than a month's time) during winter. I haven't found Dickson that tough to get to during the rest of the year and in non-reaction, but I usually use river transport.