Matrix Games Forums

I had written to the authors of the game WAAAY back in v. 1.1 and/or 1.2 about experience. It seems to be alittle better since then, but I still have a question/comment.

I played a game yesterday where my team of 3 titans went out, and one of them couldn't Active Scan to save his life! I need those "OTHER" development points, and ended up with a measely 29 pts. Now, transfer that to DP and it's not even 2! I would like to suggest for WS that there be an option to convert DP catagories into other DP catagories at a lesser rate, say 2:1.

Example, I have 38 "Combat" DPs and have maxed out my pertanent skills, but I NEED "Other" DPs. I spend 30 "Combat" to get 15 "Other".

This will help balance out the distribution. We can logically say that even though my man currently SUCKS at scanning, he tried the dang thing like literally 5 - 10 times that fight, so he SHOULD have gotten a little better at it (a little more than 2 DP... With his skill being like 41, that 2 DP is useless to put up Scanner or El. Warfare even). Going into a fight, no matter how little you do, it IS an experience. You may not have gotten the Killing Blow (or even HIT anything), but your aim should have improved a little at least. Especially if you have a veteran on the team to tell you, "Yeah, those AutoCannons are funny you have to aim a little more down to the left with the wind blowing the way it is today".

Thoughts?

-Chris

When you create a rookie pilot it is necessary to bring Scan up as close to 60 as possible. Give your Leader high leadership then scan, your manager Business/scan and your repair guy damage control/scan. No other skills should be a consideration until your primary and scan skills are at least 60. You need light/recon and one weapon skill in that range also. Don't try and spread the skills out as that will only make you bad at everything. It's not a bug or design flaw but VB's way of forcing a beginner to prioritize.

I'm not complaining about the prioritization. I have very few skills. Only about 5, but with a 40 - 45 scan, I usually make most of the ones I try. The last few days were exceptions, and it's a lose lose situation because with a low skill, you just Can't improve (since you fail your skill tests), and it should give you some exp, or allow to convert across DP categories.

Like I said, if you suck with a gun. You are just HORRIBLE, and you go to the shooting range everyday, you won't hit jack your first day, but the more you shoot the better you will get, weather you hit or not...

It's like rewarding those to are already sucessfully doing good, and not helping those who can't. I think we all agree OTHER is the hardest DP category to develop because you have less opportunities to use those skills (scanning in particular) compared to how many piloting checks, or shots you take that fight.

If it's really driving you crazy there is a cheat.
Use F3 to turn off the AI team and put them on move/fire "wait on call". Then scan and rescan until your pilots have green scans and then turn the AI on again and go back to the battle. This will get them some experience points to spend.

Actually I prefer to use my initial DPs to increase Recon (for gaining more OXPs), and Defensives (for the heat reg bonus) or Damage Control (for ammo explosion prevention) depending on the type of Titan. I don't usually increase Scanner cause it's practically useless in the early stages, unless you have very good scanners. I prefer to wait for the first promotion to get a bunch of DPs to increase it. It works quite well, cause Scanner skill is a primary skill, hence your initial score is 1~30 random, which with a good leader may go as high as ~40%. I save scanning for the latest stage of battles, when all my enemies are either crippled/destroyed, or are not going anywhere and I'm not in a hurry to destroy them. Scanning at this stage is only really doable for supports anyway, close combat titans can't afford it.

I'll have to try that Iceman...

(although I'm still in favor of the 2:1 ratio). <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Once they're past Rookie, I've tended to improve the Scan skill of my titans with missiles (and other longer range weapons), and, in preference to Scan, the Survival skill of Close Combat titans.

Scanner in a CC titan is also very useful, you can scan while closing in on your target. It'll allow you to make called shots, which are quite nasty with CC weapons. My supports with a good scanner usually can scan pretty consistently even in the early careers of the jocks - I do it when scan time is only up to 4~5 secs more than recycle time, but not more, and only at longer ranges while I wait for better CtHs.

Chris, the 2:1 ratio somewhat goes against the spirit of the "compartimentalization" of skills, don't you think? Why should your aim with an AC20 help you in any way with piloting a recon class titan, or handling your eject mechanism any better?!

If you go into combat, you'll get experience. In the game, if you fail the skill, you get NO experience for it. But we all know in real life you learn from failures. A 2:1 (or even 3:1) would allow for this simulation.

-Chris

You didn't answer my question, did you? Your initial point was trading DPs from one category to another. What does that have to do with learning from failures?
I don't want to get into this new point, but do you *always* learn something from *any* failure?

Originally posted by Chris Paladino:
If you go into combat, you'll get experience. In the game, if you fail the skill, you get NO experience for it. But we all know in real life you learn from failures. A 2:1 (or even 3:1) would allow for this simulation.

-Chris

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In Warring Suns map designers can reward winning teams with experience points, money, free titans,ect,. . .(I can't tell you everything right?). You should find that you'll have lots of combat points (you could use them but an experienced player will hold them until later), You will have more than enough development points for the campaigns. As for random maps? You're on your own. With over 100 variations on skill level difficulty there is a lot of depth to the game.
We've had lots of peopl who say they can defeat champion AI vs their own rookie team. That is something I've yet to see. Usually, Enemy AI at 2 skill levels higher is around equal for an experienced player.

The "learning from failures" thing is this. You should learn SOMETHING from every mistake you make. I tried to scan about 10 times that fight, failing each and every time, and didn't even get enough OTHER experience to put up my skill 1 point! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

The only way I can see to simulate that in game terms is to spread out the exp. a little more. If you don't have to make a piloting check at all in an entire fight, won't you still get a little better at piloting in reality? It's the same idea. Maybe 2:1 is a little harsh, maybe 3 or 4 to 1, but there should be SOMETHING. The problem is that you cannot just go an Scan something over and over till you get it right in a fight if you expect to be able to attack sometime soon.

The game doesn't let you continue after winning, so you can't go back and scan all those enemies you've killed that fight.

It is just frustrating to have a team of guys, who DO have a 45 - 55 scanner skill, missing a lot of scans, and not getting many Other points.

Although, I have more recently added a little more Recon points, and I find that it's Very easy to get recon points simply by running through the woods. Just a tip for people who don't already know it.

Ok, on the learning from failures thing, when you're riding a bike and a tire blows, if you fall, what did you learn from it?! That it hurts? On the other hand, if you manage to control the bike and keep on it, then you probably learned how to react in such a situation.
Same thing when firing a rifle. If you miss, how do you know why you missed? Was it the recoil, bad breathing, the wind, your eyes, bad sight calibration? Only when you hit after compensating for any of these can you learn what you were doing wrong.
There is a learning from failures feature in the game, but it's not the jock that learns, it's the player. The player learns what works and what doesn't, what is dangerous and what is safe. The jock only learns when he succeeds in something, prompted by the player's knowledge.

I don't think scanning destroyed enemies grants you any XP...

High scanner skill might not be enough to overcome an ECM. You have to factor that in as well. And there is no way around that, if you can't break through you get no XP. That's what ECMs are for.

Yep, recon is the best way to gather OXPs. Don't abuse it though, it's not meant to be that way. Takes the fun out of the game.
Abuse potential is one of the reasons XP has to be carefully handed out.