Matrix Games Forums

As in Amchair General site the review is ...

Passed Inspection: The best operational wargame this reviewer has played this year.

Failed Basic: Replay value is not what it could be. Editor hobbled by lack of AI documentation.

another step to convince me to buy the game...but as owner of the almost complete series (from Normandy to Battlefront) please, please, plese add more scenario to the new engine or convert some old great ones.

thanks

max

They've recently provided AI documentation by way of a hands-on tutorial so now it's a matter of getting more scenarios. I'd also like to see the old ones converted, especially the Battlefront ones, which I skipped.
 
Regards

I want to purchase this title very bad, but I won't let myself pay $50 for one 16 turn scenario. I don't care how good it is!

It may be one scenario but because of the AO system, it is three different battles going on most of the time, east of Kharkov, south of Kharkov and around Barvenkovo. Both players are trying achieve the situation where it is one combined battle that is in the player's favor.

ORIGINAL: laska2k4

As in Amchair General site the review is ...

Passed Inspection: The best operational wargame this reviewer has played this year.

Failed Basic: Replay value is not what it could be. Editor hobbled by lack of AI documentation.

another step to convince me to buy the game...but as owner of the almost complete series (from Normandy to Battlefront) please, please, plese add more scenario to the new engine or convert some old great ones.

thanks

max

We're working on a great new version of 'Across the Dnepr' as we speak and lots of other stuff as well. We have released tutorials for both the AO and AI systems to help scenario creators. These things take time but there will be plenty of content for the new system.

Gregor

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
We're working on a great new version of 'Across the Dnepr' as we speak and lots of other stuff as well. We have released tutorials for both the AO and AI systems to help scenario creators. These things take time but there will be plenty of content for the new system.
Gregor

[:)] excellent news [:)]

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
We're working on a great new version of 'Across the Dnepr' as we speak and lots of other stuff as well. We have released tutorials for both the AO and AI systems to help scenario creators. These things take time but there will be plenty of content for the new system.
Gregor

Now that's some good news we need more scenarios. The Kharkov system is one of the best that I've ever played. And I played alot of wargames over the years.

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

...
We're working on a great new version of 'Across the Dnepr' as we speak and lots of other stuff as well. We have released tutorials for both the AO and AI systems to help scenario creators. These things take time but there will be plenty of content for the new system.

Gregor

Thanks for reminding me of that. That was discussed in other thread and as far as I remember nobody denied the claims that the new version of 'Across the Dnepr' was to be an expansion pack for which it would be necessary to pay. Is this true? Or will it be released for free? Also, you state there will be plenty of new content, as before will it be generally available for free, or will it consist of expansion packs for which it will be necessary to pay?

ORIGINAL: jmlima
Thanks for reminding me of that. That was discussed in other thread and as far as I remember nobody denied the claims that the new version of 'Across the Dnepr' was to be an expansion pack for which it would be necessary to pay. Is this true? Or will it be released for free? Also, you state there will be plenty of new content, as before will it be generally available for free, or will it consist of expansion packs for which it will be necessary to pay?

I think I saw on one of the threads that it would be for sale, but discounted maybe if you have the original game already.

ORIGINAL: Noakesy

ORIGINAL: jmlima
Thanks for reminding me of that. That was discussed in other thread and as far as I remember nobody denied the claims that the new version of 'Across the Dnepr' was to be an expansion pack for which it would be necessary to pay. Is this true? Or will it be released for free? Also, you state there will be plenty of new content, as before will it be generally available for free, or will it consist of expansion packs for which it will be necessary to pay?

I think I saw on one of the threads that it would be for sale, but discounted maybe if you have the original game already.

Yes , now , was that an official statement, or is that still the word of mouth going around?

ORIGINAL: jmlima
Yes , now , was that an official statement, or is that still the word of mouth going around?

I think it was official (see Gregor's announcement on 19th July on this thread I think)...

tm.asp?m=1792947&mpage=2&key=

...there was also a similar comment on the Run5 forum as I commented I'd lost my reference number for when I bought AtD, but I've found it now...[:)]

ORIGINAL: Noakesy
...
I think it was official (see Gregor's announcement on 19th July on this thread I think)...

tm.asp?m=1792947&mpage=2&key=

...

Thanks. [:)] That clears my question, and my interest.

double post

Passed Inspection: The best operational wargame this reviewer has played this year.

I might find that more of a recommendation if I could think of any others released this year! [&:]

Like Treale, I keep trying to justify buying this but it's just too much for a one-trick pony at present. Maybe it will be in the Christmas sale.

.. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Passed Inspection: The best operational wargame this reviewer has played this year.

I might find that more of a recommendation if I could think of any others released this year! [&:]

Like Treale, I keep trying to justify buying this but it's just too much for a one-trick pony at present. Maybe it will be in the Christmas sale.

I guess I cast too wide of a net when I wrote "the best operational wargame". I was talking about boardgames and computer games. You are right, you have to go back a bit to find another operational computer wargame.

I certainly understand the issue about only one scenario, and putting my computer gamer hat on, I agree. But putting my boardgamer hat on, Kharkov is similar in price to a good board game, and stands up very well when compared to one.

Larry

ORIGINAL: larizona55
...
I certainly understand the issue about only one scenario, and putting my computer gamer hat on, I agree. But putting my boardgamer hat on, Kharkov is similar in price to a good board game, and stands up very well when compared to one.

Larry

hmmm... Please allow me to take another look at this comparison.

Kharkov costs me £31 (since we are comparing to a physical item, I'll have to use the physical version)or USD 56 at today's rate, now let's compare this with some boardgames that fall under the same scope as the Kharkov game:

Beyond the Urals - USD 19.87
Borodino 41 - USD 25.43
Cherkassy Pocket - USD 37.87
Drive on Stalingrad - USD 39.87
Gotterdammerung - USD 21.87
Op Kremlin - USD 31.87
Op Spark - UDS 32.87
Red God of War - USD 19.87
Roads to Leningrad - USD 24.87
Stalingrad Pocket - USD 27.87
Triumphant Return - USD 21.87
Turning the Tables - USD 24.87
Velikye Luki - USD 21.87
Battles for the Ardennes - USD 33.87
FAB : The Bulge - USD 36.87
NUTS - USD 35.87
Screaming Eagles in Holland - USD 36.43
Burma : USD 42.87
Tiger of Malaya : USD 52.87

(prices collected from http://wargamedepot.com/catalog/index.p ... 1d393cd5d7)

I left out OOP games, or games that by their scale completely dwarf the scope of Kharkov and that therefore would be redundant to compare, even on this list there are games that whilst covering a single operation provide a series of scenarios.

I do think that I could buy any of those boardgames before I was even close to buy Kharkov, not to mention that some of them would provide me more than one scenario / battle, hence more theoretical bang for the buck. Also, in general one can argue that a computer game has got an AI, what if I'm not interested and only PBEM? You could also argue that you get a scenario editor, but has we have all seen before , the inclusion is not per se a guarantee of any form that new scenarios will arrive, from the community.

All in all it's a simple discussion, and it's down to what one personally considers as value for money, and this is vastly different from person to person...

I cant believe 6 months later and were still harping on over the price of this game and the number of scenarios. Unbelievable. Its been done to death. If this game came with 3 large scenarios people would still be moaning just like they did with BII. SSG have made huge steps forward with this engine. Should they have held off the release an extra year and made more scenarios? Or should they release it as soon as the engine and 1 scenario is complete so people can actually play the game then release scenarios afterwards? I dunno. I can see people being split down the middle. As for the price, well id tend to agree £31 was too much for 1 scenario imo but so far im getting my moneys worth so i dont see the point in comparing it/complaining about it. No one is ever going to agree on this subject. EVER!

And going on the amount of times that i and im sure many other people have spent more than £30 on a game only to find it to be a huge pile of shit at least this game actually plays brilliantly.

What I think many fail to understand is that a scenario from SSG it's not a simple hack job. It's an accurate Order of Battle, finely researched. It's an artistically depicted historical map. It's an artificial intelligence system adapted for the scenario, that actually tests the player skills. It's a set of objectives with balanced play for both sides. Cutting long stories short, it's hard work.

I'd rather have a single scenario with all the above, that two dozen scenarios with fictional or plain wrong OOB's, with maps based on green and brown hexes, hacked up jobs done to look like the system has "value for money", as it happens with many other products.

Even if some would not agree, and would prefer plenty of amateur fictional scenarios instead of quality, I'm forced to remember everybody that nobody is pointing a gun to our collective heads to force us to buy the game. If you want quality, buy it. You won't regreat it.

I preferred to buy WW2: Road to Victory rather than Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets , now I think I have made a big mistake and I'll buy Kharkov but preferably in bundle with Across the Dnepr... I can wait!