Matrix Games Forums

Situation...

The enemy has been identified by AWACS. A couple of Fulcrum, Flanker or perhaps a Foxhound or two are coming towards me. I order Tornados or F15s to intercept. As they close, something rather odd happens; the enemy logo changes to yellow with a diamond outline. Inexplicably I have just lost their exact position.

The situation now gets a bit scary. If I continue on present course and heading I will probably be rewarded with an alert siren, an incoming missile message, and a second or two later, a couple of explosions together with the news that two of my planes have been shot down[&:][&:]

This has happened to me several times now. I am sure that the game has simulated a pretty neat move carried out by the enemy, but I really don't have a clue as to what that move was[:(]

Can anybody on this forum offer a simple (ex) ground pounder an explanation in words of one syllable?

Many thanks,

PongoDeMer

ORIGINAL: PongoDeMer
Situation... The enemy has been identified by AWACS. A couple of Fulcrum, Flanker or perhaps a Foxhound or two are coming towards me. I order Tornados or F15s to intercept. As they close, something rather odd happens; the enemy logo changes to yellow with a diamond outline. Inexplicably I have just lost their exact position. The situation now gets a bit scary. If I continue on present course and heading I will probably be rewarded with an alert siren, an incoming missile message, and a second or two later, a couple of explosions together with the news that two of my planes have been shot down[&:][&:] This has happened to me several times now. I am sure that the game has simulated a pretty neat move carried out by the enemy, but I really don't have a clue as to what that move was[:(] Can anybody on this forum offer a simple (ex) ground pounder an explanation in words of one syllable? Many thanks, PongoDeMer

I doubt it can be explained in a single syllable, but I will try to answer succintly.

You lost a good fix on the enemy aircraft position (as I think you've gleaned yourself). The question is why?

Presumably your airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) asset (such as an AWACS) was still up and radiating. Neither of the Fulcrum, Flanker and Foxhound are terribly stealthy jets, so I am doubtful that it was simply a matter of a powerful radar (like that aboard AWACS) trying to get a fix on a difficult (i.e. stealthy) target.

Instead, I expect your problem was enemy jamming. Do you recall the "lightning bolt" symbol appearing over any of your own radars (AWACS included)? Jamming in HCE will reduce the effective range of your radar, and in the process it is not unusual to lose your precise fix on an enemy aircraft. Once lost, the enemy jet can be anywhere in the uncertainty zone (the yellow diamond shaped area).

Until you regain a solid fix, continuing to close the distance with the enemy is extremely risky. Something akin to the quarterback running into the opposing team's end while wearing a blindfold. Your first (and likely only) indication that the enemy is nearby will be (as you discovered) an incoming missile.

How do you counter enemy jamming? Add your own jamming to deny the enemy the advantage, and use more powerful or effective radars that can "burn through" the jamming (i.e. they have such a long range that the effect of the jamming is reduced accordingly). And don't fly blindly into the grasp of a waiting enemy. [;)]

Hope this helps.

Is your awacs "loitering"? It could have pointed away from the area.

ORIGINAL: PongoDeMer

The enemy has been identified by AWACS. A couple of Fulcrum, Flanker or perhaps a Foxhound or two are coming towards me. I order Tornados or F15s to intercept. As they close, something rather odd happens; the enemy logo changes to yellow with a diamond outline. Inexplicably I have just lost their exact position.

The situation now gets a bit scary. If I continue on present course and heading I will probably be rewarded with an alert siren, an incoming missile message, and a second or two later, a couple of explosions together with the news that two of my planes have been shot down[&:][&:]

I don't think that it is only a matter of jamming. If you do not see any 'lightning bolt' symbols over your plane icons, the partial loss of contact usually indicates that the enemy has fired upon me. I think that if they fire and turn away, they offer a lower profile and thus result in a non-localized detection, but I could be wrong. When the AI does it to me, that is the signal for my fighters to run! I often pull away at max speed and try to intercept after dodging the inbound AAMs. I am rarely wrong about the enemy missiles.

If I am mistaken, all I've done is burned a bit of gas. Also, the enemy will likely have closed a bit with the AWACS and thus it should get a stronger signal, too. It is one of the few behaviours I encounter within the game that turns my blood cold... [8D]

Thanks gents.
 
I should add that a little knowledge in this instance does not stop this scenario from being a miraculous cure for constipation.  Brown corderoy trousers (pants) with bicycle clips will continue to be worn.[:@][:@]
 
PongoDeMer

ORIGINAL: mack2
Is your awacs "loitering"? It could have pointed away from the area.

The E-3 AWACS has the 360 deg radar flag, so loitering wouldn't affect it. Good point, though, because with fighter radars and some others, the target needs to be in your forward hemisphere to get optimum radar performance.

Pongo, you haven't indicated whether you were being jammed?

Could it be that the bad guys have just shut down their own radar, and you have thus lost what was actually a passive ESM track rather than an active radar track? What about if they changed altitude and are now below the horizon for the AWACS?

The original situation stated that the enemy planes were coming towards you.  That indicates that they are either investigating an unknown contact (you) or intercepting.  In either case, they would probably be turning on their radar (if they had been radar silent, previously).  Once activated, there would be no reason for them to de-activate until they had either thoroughly confirmed your hostility/neutrality or else destroyed you.

In HCE, the ECM is activated when the radar is turned on.  So, CV32's supposition that the presence of lightning bolt symbols indicates both jamming and active enemy radar is very accurate.  If the jamming is present, then the effective range of your own radar is significantly reduced.

ORIGINAL: hermanhum
Once activated, there would be no reason for them to de-activate until they had either thoroughly confirmed your hostility/neutrality or else destroyed you.

When AI aircraft are painted by your radar, they tend to energize their own radars. They are unlikely to turn them off once this happens. Jamming is also tied to sensors, so their jamming equipment is also activated simultaneously.