Empires Ablaze V1.5 - Ideas sought

[Nemo121]

Well EA's last public version was back at V1.3 or so and since then a few changes/hopefully improvements have happened. Here's a listing of them and why they were made.

1. Japanese AAA. The Japanese AAA didn't really upgrade reasonably throughout the war. Units which had 13mm MGs as low-level AAA in 1939 ended the war with those same 13mm MGs as their low-level defence in 1945. Basically I just felt that for infantry units it was reasonable to maintain the Type 92 HMG as their low-level defence as that was a unit which adds considerably to that unit's ground combat firepower.

In non-ED infantry/mechanied units I allowed incremental upgrading to occur. So, for engineer units, Base Forces etc the 13mm MGs might be swapped out for 25mm cannon and the 25mm cannon might be replaced by Bofors. Again, it doesn't turn them into FlAK hotbeds but it does tend to just force Allied bombers a little higher as the war progresses.

2. The IJN has a great 4.7inch DP gun available from the beginning of the war BUT very few units are so equipped at the start of the war. So, what I've done is change the target TO&E for IJN base forces, engineer units and coastal defence units so that they swap out 75mm AAA units or 4.7 inch anti-shipping guns for the 4.7 inch DP gun. This keeps the anti-shipping capability of the CD units but also gives them some ability to reach up and touch the B-17s. In addition heavy AAA units now get a boost in their FlAK performance such that they can reach enemy bombers above 25,000 feet or so.

3. The IJA doesn't start the war with anything comparable to the 4.7inch DP gun BUT during the course of the war it did build a great 120mm gun. So, in response to the B-17 threat this gun comes in about mid-43 ( instead of early 44 ) and begins to replace the 75mm and 105mm guns in the IJA FlAK and base units.

4. I've standardised IJA and IJN CD and AAA units so that, except in rare circumstances with specific reasons, each of those units will use just IJA or IJN weaponry and upgrade appropriately.

5. I've one a run-through of radars and found a number of crucial IJA and IJN units missing radars. So, now, all Base Forces, Port Defence forces and Medium to Heavy AAA units have air search radars. .

6. The Ki-43 II Oscar comes in a little earlier and as the sort of plane the Japanese player is going to have to pit against B-17s it swap out its 2 MGs for a single 20mm cannon. There was actually a model which did this in real life so I've included it here. As the Ki-43 is armoured I expect it to be quite capable now of taking on B-17s without suffering excessive casualties.

7. F4F4 replacement rate increased slightly. It had been reduced and now I've pretty much split the difference.

8. Allied CAs reviewed for radar and floatplanes.

9. PPs increased slightly from 125 per day for Japan to 150 and from 250 per day for the Allies to 300. This ought to allow a Japanese player who makes an error in his weighting in the early days require more quickly ( about 20% quicker actually ).


So, mostly the Japanese AAA and radar build-out has been fixed and their unit TO&Es made more internally consistent. Do I expect this to benefit the Japanese? Yes. Do I think it will benefit them as much as some might think? Absolutely not... I doubt many Japanese players will have the economy to produce all of those new guns and replace the ones they currently have. Sure, they will be able to upgrade a few select units but they won't be able to upgrade everything by any means.

With that said the Allies have had some fixes too - mainly to their navy and also to increase F4F4 numbers.

So, if any players or readers of the AARs have any ideas please pipe up. For all I know 2nd ACR and Damian may have listed laundry lists of changes in their AARs which I'm not privy to.

Oh and if anyone is feeling particularly generous and is willing to host the mod then please feel free to contact me. Right now I am limited to emailing it out to people who contact me and that's obviously not ideal.

[ny59giants]

I think I mentioned the need to add another shipping channel to Australia/New Zealand. I had used RHS level 7 and figured you could make the PWHEX changes to have your mod have another channel start from the extreme SW corner and come back east to allow reinforcements get to Tasmania, Oz, and/or NZ and make Perth less a strategic importance than it has become.

I think a more detailed explanation of the potential pitfalls of the Japanese player's first turn. Damian's "adventure" in Russia shows how spending those PPs early in that manner can have serious consequences.

I agree with raising the Japanese PP level, but I might decrease the change for the Allies to only 275 per day.

The Australian pilot pool needs to be increased at start and/or the monthly rate slightly raised. They took most of the losses early in the game until I could get the Americans over to Oz.

Make changes in the American Navy and Marine fighters/SBD from Carrier Trained to Carrier Capable that start the game. Thus, when the early '42 upgrades happen, the Americans can place 2 Wildcat, 2 SBD, and 1 Avenger squadron on when the CV capacity increases to 90. I had mentioned rearrangments for the British CVs in a prior PM.

[Nemo121]

Mike,
 
The problem with doing what you suggest with New Zealand is that the shipping channel represents the Allied shipping sailing from CONUSA to Panama and then across the Atlantic Ocean to Africa and then from Africa to India. As such the Allies are actually catching a pretty big break ( at least 1 month of sailing time ) in going from CONUSA to Perth by having the exit at Perth. If I put in another exit to NZ then the shipping channel would give them an even bigger bonus in their trip time to NZ. That's why I put an exit in the shipping channel at its extreme south-eastern portion so that Allied shipping can jump out and reinforce NZ ( but only at the cost of risking being sunk ).
 
Personally I would LOVE to see AE have "wormholes" which would have a specific destination which took a programmed amount of time to get to. That way we could remove shipping channels entirely and have ships enter a wormhole near Panama or somesuch and exit it X days later on the other side of the map having spent the appropriate travel time, used the right amount of fuel etc. One could even throw in a % chance of running into U-boats etc to model that risk. Right now though the current system ( imperfect as it is ) is the best one I could come up with.
 
 
Better explanation: Ok, Damian had 9,000 PP at the start of the game and another 7,000 AV by the end of January. He made the mistake, IMO, of not thinking 6 months ahead at where he would need forces to achieve the situation he wanted in 6 months time and thus he ended up with many troops committed to a dead-end venture in the Soviet Union. This dead-end venture's opportunity cost has been that those troops weren't available elsewhere and thus my forces are able to achieve victories elsewhere that they shouldn't really be achieving at this early stage of the game.
 
 
The Allies have significant issues with PPs also --- even if they don't misdirect it initially. Bear in mind that a US Division costs more PP per AV to purchase so the Japanese get more from their increase in PP than the Allies do. The US and Japs will both still have too few PP, which is as it should be.
 
 
Australian pilot pool... That seems reasonable, I'll bump the Ozzies and NZs up a little as they would have been increasing training in response to the Japanese buildups. * Change made * The combined Oz/NZ monthly pilot pool increase goes from 35 to 50. Not too much but, then again, this mod isn't about giving everyone enough to do everything. Players MUST be made to deal with shortages otherwise there's less skill involved.
 
 
Re: USN and USMC...
1. Surely you mean change the USMC from Capable to Trained. Currently you are asking for them to be DOWNgraded which doesn't seem to make sense for me.
2. At present the US CAN already do what you ask. My CVs had USMC fighters and dive-bombers aboard for all of the June.

[n01487477]

Nemo,
there are many free web hosting sites out there, I know Floyd and I use the googlewebhosting for Tracker stuff ...
These are just 2 of the many available sites and I'm willing to do a quick page if you require.

http://googlewebhosting.net/
http://www.000webhost.com/

As for changes, I want to do a more thorough review, (and I will do that in a later post) but let me start with the area I am most familiar with, the economy. Generally, A move to the next generation map would be great, if feasible. The ferry between Pago Pago and Upolu doesn't work also.

1. Economic revision, less oil to start (too much stockpiled). One of the reasons Japan went to war was the American embargo on Oil/metals to Japan. I know this is a simplistic view, but this mod gives too much of this already stockpiled. At the start of play according to Tracker I have 474days of Oil and 221 days of Res in Japan.
[*]Res Centres at the start are actually in surplus by 5300 Res/day or 4240 Res Centres. Japan receives (32500/day).I currently ship more res, than any other thing.
[*]Down 704 Oil Centres to hit equilibrium in relation to HI, the rush to get Palembang etc is secondary to finding more HI.
[*]HI starts at 12061, this is low but not unmanageable, makes completing sufficient a/c, troop equip and ships difficult but NOT impossible to produce in enough numbers to fight evenly in early-Mid '42. Although (speaking about our game, the number of Allied fighter units /reinforcement seem higher than what I can produce when it should be more even in '42).

2. Osaka and Tokyo horde supplies more than any other game I've played, even when almost empty, meaning that many bases remain below the 10K threshold. I'm happily moving troops and AK's around to distribute, but I'm sure there would be a way to make this better. Maybe taps and sink holes (which I don't really understand fully), or small resC spread more ???

3. I really like the ability to increase production around the map, but giving too much freedom allows me to quickly increase small increments of production capability of one item in multiple locations. So for instance I can increase Zeke production overall by 20 planes a month just by having 5 new factories build a capacity of 4, 4 turns later, hey presto (although I should see if these small factories actually do produce??). I'm not sure this is a good thing, as I don;t need to make careful choices of what to build in what factory, but I sure do enjoy the flexibility.

4. Mitsubishi Engines start at 500, with the return to pool of many Nates & Claudes, and only the H8K2-L to produce in the future, the production of this engine is moribund. I never will produce enough Dave's or Glens to turn on these engines. Overall the engine to plane distribution is interesting and challenging, esp the Hitachi and Ishi.

5.Arm and Veh factories are definitely insufficient at the beginning of the game, this is not a request for more, just an analysis. Some of the incoming troops require large amts to equip and many units are understrength at the beginning.

6. Too many manpower centres.

7. Naval shipyard and Merchant shipyards need to be increased a bit by the player, but overall I am not finding it too difficult to produce what I need of both categories. Although I will never produce the 2 BC's. I will post again about the ship classes and production choice another time, but as I said in an earlier email, an expansion of these choices might mean more flexibility.

8. Repair yards are certainly understrength, players need to increase these, and the Port sizes to match.

9. Maybe, Nandi and Suva to have slightly increase in resource production or HI. Koumac to have either a bigger port or move the resC to Noumea more freely. I really want the Allies to come out and fight for some of these places, not just as strategic points, but because they are valuable (VP's). And because I dislike Sir Robin. Palembang - no need for the 1000 undeveloped Oil Cntrs.

This is all I can think of right now for the economy, and I think you will agree I'm not actually asking for much, most of this is an analysis. I'll look at the other areas when I get the chance.

PS. And I agree with Nemo that I made stupid PP choices at the beginning ~~@@#$@#$!!

[ny59giants]

Map issues - Ideally, I would love to see this game on RHS level 7 map (this is my favorite map by far at this point). With Admiral's Edition coming out on ????, I would be willing to learn the Editor stuff to help out.

I looked at RHS 7 map and distances to see where my proposed shipping channel would be. It would have an opening between 2,147 and 2,148 and exit at 34,147.
The distances on EA is Capetown to Perth = 80 hexes
Using RHS 7: Capetown to Perth = 102
Capetown to Hobart = 95
Capetown to Dunedin = 99
So this short shipping channel would be about 75 hexes to either Hobart or Dunedin from Capetown by adding it just above the existing map edge.  IMO, Perth has gained too much strategic importance with the current shipping channels and I feel it should be harder to isolate Australia from the rest of the Allies (Aden and/or Panama areas).

[1EyedJacks]

It would be nice to add the upgrade capability for some of the Japanese subs to lay mines. I think at the start of the war there are 3 Japanese subs that can lay mines? I was just thinking that maybe sometime in late 42 the "I" class subs could receive an upgrade.

Just curious - when you do upgrades to ships, do future builds come equipped with the upgrades as standard features?

In my game with Carl he is a mine-laying freak <grin>. I'd love the opportunity to share with him the pleasures of keeping mine sweepers busy. I mean, MLs are cool but subs w/mines really get under my skin. I want to share the experience... <bigger grin>

[Nemo121]

Damian,

Thanks for those tips... I would really love a little help putting a page up... Something VERY simple is all I'm thinking. I'll drop you an email in a day or two with some ideas etc if that's ok.

As to the specific points:

1. My reading of various economic studies is that the OIL was there but that Japan had troubles transporting it. Much of the OIL production is a legacy from RHS but I've tweaked it a bit here and there ( according to RHS there was far more than I even have ). In terms of OIL reserves.... I think I've tweaked this downward significantly since the version of the mod which we're playing... V1.3 featured some pretty major economic revisions to starting stockpiles and I hammered OIL pretty hard. So I think this problem ( which you've rightly identified ) should be fixed.


2. Tokyo and Osaka are hoarding supplies because, I would imagine, you have LOTS of troops and planes in both of those ports - far more than is normal in other games. Why is this? Because you don't have the PP to "buy them out". If you put 30 Bettys in Osaka that will cause over 2,000 tons of supplies to appear there. Put a division there and you'll need another 1500 tons of supplies, add in a HQ and you need another 10,000. The end result of all of this is that due to a lack of PP you have an excess of troops and planes in those two bases drawing supplies to them. I can't be 100% certain of that without seeing your exact dispositions but I'd be pretty sure that is what is happening.

In my game with 2ndACR I have a nice level of supplies all through Japan because I have forces distributed throughout Japan and enough PP to buy out arriving forces as they are due. So, I doubt it is a mod issue as just something arising out of the peculiar situation in our current game. Still, sooner rather than later your lack of PP to buy those guys out is going to be a blessing in disguise as ALL of those units are going to be available for the defence of the Home Islands and not trapped down in Noumea while my CVs have taken Truk or Rabaul behind them.


3. This is a philosophical issue. I agree with your point insofar as I do allow many different plane types to be produced in many different places around the map BUT:
a) if you build them in Bangkok ( as you have built many Tojos ) you need to have enough HI, supplies etc there to actually produce something ( not guaranteed ) and
b) those factories are very vulnerable to Allied bombing campaigns once the Allies begin to counter-attack.

So, disseminated production allows greater ramping up of production BUT at massively increased risk AND without the same long-term potential for production since a factory in bangkok is HIGHLY unlikely to be as productive in 1944 and 45 as a factory in Osaka. So, yes, you are making a lot of planes in China and Thailand etc BUT you won't be making them for much longer. Overall I would say you would hae been much better making those factories in the Home Islands ( same goes for Manchuria/Korea by the way ).


4. Hmm, you get 80 Mitsus a month and a stockpile of 500. The H8KL2 should be used to full out about 160 spaces in Kanyo Naval transport units. Those 160 spaces give Japan the ability to transport a Bde PER DAY to a distance of about 40 hexes. Those planes can expect to take a lot of losses to LRCAP and Ops once used in this way. In short I expect that most players would have to increase Mitsu production. Mistu production is a little trap I left in for the unwary player who doesn't plan ahead. Personally in April 42 in my game vs 2ndACR I am slowly but surely expanding Mitsu production to 120 engines per month.

Don't forget who made EA. In-game I'm sneaky and love offering things which seem a great idea in the short-term only to cripple you in the long-term. I did this with OIL, I did this with HI, I did this with factories and I did this with plane engine requirements in the mod... as well as a few other things.

So, I take your point but believe that deeper analysis shows the H8KL2 and Ki-264L to be two of the most decisive weapons systems in the war as they give Japan a decisive LOC/logistics advantage in game and logistics, more than pure firepower, will determine who wins a game of WiTP.


5. Absolutely agree. It invites an over-reaction from the player which could cripple the Japanese economy in mid-42. This is intentional.


6. I don't think you can ever have too many manpower centres.... In terms of manpower you only get enough to man 40 large AAA guns per day. I don't think that's too excessive. In any case I think japan functioned with a manpower excess during most of the war ( depends how you measure "excess" of course but I trust you get my drift ). In addition this is one area where I don't mind having an excess as I'm quite suspicious of the game's accuracy as regards manpower modelling so I built in a little cushion to allow for what I felt might be errors in the model.


7. Aye, I'm interested in what you would like as other options.


8. Aye, definitely true. IMO the IJN player needs 1 x 440 Repair shipyard or at least 2 x 220 repair shipyards a well as 3 to 4 x 100 point repair yards. This will require about 500,000 tons of supplies alone.


9. Palembang.... Maybe not for your strategy but for others those 1,000 undeveloped OIL centres are immensely helpful. I will also note that they act as a buffer for Allied strategic bombing of Palembang, making it less effective than it might otherwise be. Plans within plans within plans and all that .

VPs. I'm confused. Are you saying players should fight for Nandi because of VPs?



Thanks for the input.



Mike - Can you give me a steer on the RHS Level 7 maps...
Good idea re: the map. That looks doable. I'll look into it and if it works as nicely as it looks like it will I'll add it in. I can even add in a dogloeg to make up the extra 20 hexes to Perth and all the other places.

[ny59giants]

Can you give me a steer on the RHS Level 7 maps...

Can you be more specific??

I would suggest that you take a look yourself by downloading the latest RHS 7 scenarios.

About how many man-hours would it take to transfer your mod to RHS 7 map system?? Just curious. [:D]

[Nemo121]

Subs with mines... Well I increased these KRS ( I-121 to 124 ) numbers twice already.
&nbsp;
Back at 1.3 I increased their numbers from 4 to 8 ( 4 being present at the beginning of the war with 4 more building throughout 1942 and 43 ) and then during the 1.4 series of fixes I added another 6 due to arrive at the beginning of 1944. So, instead of a historical 4 boats Japan can now end up with, potentially, 14 KRS type minelaying subs through new production.
&nbsp;
In addition the J1, J2 and J3 class boats can all be upgraded to either late-war Kaiten carriers (1944) &nbsp;OR minelayers ( end of 1942 ). IF an IJN player plays his cards carefully he could easily end up with 20+ minelaying subs and the J class ( being so large )&nbsp;are able to carry almost twice the mineload of the KRS. Why the large number of minelayers? Well, I think that USN ASW makes minelaying about the only survivable mission in 1944 and 45.
&nbsp;
Radar suites become commonplace from 1944 onward.

[Nemo121]

Mike -- I don't know their location at all. As to transferring it onto the Level 7 maps... Almost certainly would require recoding every single town placement and shipping channel by hand... So, a lot of time but not undoable. May just be better to wait for AE though. If there is interest in porting EA to AE then I might do so.

[2ndACR]

I can understand the early Corsair having 2 .50 and 2 .30 cal MG's.......but even the F4U1 has the same armament........it needs to change to the correct armament in 1943 of 6 .50 cal.
&nbsp;
Move the Fairbanks defense unit from Canada to Fairbanks. Can not remember the base it is currently in.
&nbsp;
I have been getting CTD's when trying to move B19's...I have to save the game, move, suffer CTD......load, move which sometimes works, sometimes CTD's again. Not sure why.
&nbsp;
Swordfish have max range of 3 and Vildebeast has max range 5.......should be reversed.
&nbsp;
Would like to see another path created from the South Atlantic and Capetown locations to allow more direct shipping to say Sydney etc.

[ny59giants]

Fionn,
Here are some distances along the map edge shipping channels from RHS 7.

Capetown to Aden = 177
Capetown to Melbourne = 103
Capetown to Durban (in the SW corner of the map) = 14

[ny59giants]

Now we goes east.

Capetown to Colon, Panama = 163 (bottom shipping channel)
Capetown to Rio de Janeiro = 89 (middle shipping channel)
Capetown to Valparaiso = 116 (top shipping channel)
Capetown to Recife = 101 (middle and bottom shipping channels)

[ny59giants]

I have been getting CTD's when trying to move B19's...I have to save the game, move, suffer CTD......load, move which sometimes works, sometimes CTD's again. Not sure why.

I had the same thing happen with me. I thought it was only my computer. I think it might be related to the high transfer range.

[ny59giants]

Here's Aden.

[ny59giants]

Here is Panama.

[ny59giants]

Australia and New Zealand were re-sized to be more accurate, so this is how those shipping channels were changed. There is now over 10 hexes between Perth and the west map edge which makes more room for possible Japanese carrier ops.

[Nemo121]

I've had it happen once.... I reloaded, made the exact same move and it worked flawlessly... I was running multiple windows and thought it might be a memory issue ( just too much going on ).... Maybe not though. Hmmm !!!

[1EyedJacks]

Questions on 4E LB on naval attack - what is realistic for this mod?

This is a cut-n-paste between Carl and I discussing a floor for attacking shipping w/4E LB...

------- Initial from Carl -----------------------

Hi Mike

Did you see in Nemo's game notes that the Behemoth's with the anti-ship guided missiles are not supposed to be used below 20,000 ft due to the weapon being too deadly below that? I am using 9,000 ft as a hard floor for B-17/B-24 on naval attack, with 12,000 ft as the hard floor for B-19/B-29. 2E is mostly employed at 6,000 ft or higher. Before we get into some LBA vs CV action, do you agree these are ok?

Cheers

Carl

---------- Response from Mike --------------

Umm. I saw the 20k rule for the Behemoth and plan to follow it. I dunno what is fair for B-17 and other 4E LB as a floor for bombing.

I concur with the 6k floor for 2E LB on naval atk. I would say that all Allied/Japanese 4E LB should have a floor of 15k for naval atk except the Behemoth which should have a 20k floor.

Why do you feel a difference in floor for a B-17/B-24 vs a B-19/B-29?

B-19A has 16 GP 500 lb bombs
B-29 has 20 GP 500 lb bombs
B-24 has 16 GP 500 lb bombs
B-17G/E has 12 GP 500 lb bombs
B-17D has 10 GP 500 lb bombs


Ki-264 Angel 32 AP 100 lb INT --- so 48 total 100 lb bombs..
- - - - - - - - -16 AP 100 lb XT

Ki-264 Behemoth has 4 HS-293A1 ASM (Anti Ship Munitions)
G8N1 Rita has 16 GP 100 lb bombs <-- This is a 4E too - right?

TTFN,

Mike

[Nemo121]

Mike,
&nbsp;
The Behemoth limit of 20,000 feet is purely due to the way in which game code for "PGM" ( Guided Munitions ) works. As far as I'm concerned any player can send any OTHER bomber in at any altitude they want.
&nbsp;
I would suggest, however, that the IJA bombers armed with 100 Kg bombs are pretty much useless in terms of conventional anti-shipping attacks. They are pretty useful in kamikaze raids sometimes but those 100 Kg bombs really achieve nothing when they hit enemy warships. Anything larger than an early-war DD will just shrug them off.