Deployment AI
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:19 am
Please note that this was written as a response to Korsun's post in another thread but I felt that it warrants a new topic.
I have to strongly disagree. I've played all of the original CC series: 1-5, so I'm quite experienced playing against the AI. I didn't expect a miracle with WaR but I did expect an improvement. I have yet to see any major difference in computer tactical AI, nor any improvement in the deployment AI which I feel is the downfall of the series. It is common knowledge that the AI will do better on the defense, this is true for most tactical games. However, in the entire CC series the defensive AI is completely compromised by the HORRIBLE deployment of it's units. Too often infantry are deployed in fields or other open terrain in plain view of the human controlled units instead of in buildings or woods. And in many cases, these units are deployed with horrible fields of fire or in places that don't make sense from a tactical standpoint.
This After Action report demonstrates the horrible deployment AI:
I recently played the second battle in the Grand Campaign. I played the German VG battlegroup attacking a 106 ID battlegroup. I forget the town name but there were many buildings in it that the computer AI could set up in and a fair amount of woods on the northern side of the map also. I was given the upper right corner to deploy which only had two buildings and a few trees but no woods. The neutral area between us had many buildings which would help buffer my infantry and two SP guns. The computer AI had at least 15 buildings and woods on the north side to deploy in so I figured it would be a tough fight to root them out.
Carefully I advanced my infantry from building to building and into the nearest woods. After 10 minutes of this still had not seen any enemy. I had advanced through most of the town on the north side. Finally one of my infantry on the south side sees an enemy squad running in the open where it had deployed. I cut them down easy with some MG fire. My infantry on the north explore most of the woods and all of the buildings to the west and eventually spot an enemy squad dug in on the far side of the map. It is deployed on the side of the road next to some woods and near the exit to the map. This makes no tactical sense unless you want to abandon the map. Oh well, I just bring up my SP gun and kill them from a distance. Another squad in the woods next to this one opens up on my infantry.
So far, I have taken about 70% of the town and 80% of the woods. My next goal is to clear the houses to the south and check out the fields beyond that. I move through the entire town and don't find anyone. I take over the last two southern buildings only to find the rest of the U.S. force in plain view in a field near the southern exit road. This force includes several infantry and two large AT guns. I called in my off board mortars since these units are all bunched together in a field. They take heavy casualties before the time runs out and the battle ends.
In the end the enemy had about 30 dead or incapacitated. I had one dead, no wounded.
In conclusion: The Deployment AI decided to concede the entire town and about 80% of the woods YET it stuck around to defend the map from horribly exposed positions or from the woods near the exit where it had little or no field of fire. I was able to take every building without one casualty.
This is inexcusable. Where's the improvement in the AI?
ORIGINAL: Korsun
Without going too much into detail. I have played CC4, CC5, CoI and now WaR. Meanwhile I have had lots of battles in games like Sudden Strike, Blitzkrieg, Soldiers, Korsun Pocket, BiI, BiN, Highway to the Reich, World at War, Flashpoint Germany and others. All grognards would agree when I say that no AI can match a (skilled) human opponent. But the AI of WaR is one of the best I have encountered so far.
I have to strongly disagree. I've played all of the original CC series: 1-5, so I'm quite experienced playing against the AI. I didn't expect a miracle with WaR but I did expect an improvement. I have yet to see any major difference in computer tactical AI, nor any improvement in the deployment AI which I feel is the downfall of the series. It is common knowledge that the AI will do better on the defense, this is true for most tactical games. However, in the entire CC series the defensive AI is completely compromised by the HORRIBLE deployment of it's units. Too often infantry are deployed in fields or other open terrain in plain view of the human controlled units instead of in buildings or woods. And in many cases, these units are deployed with horrible fields of fire or in places that don't make sense from a tactical standpoint.
This After Action report demonstrates the horrible deployment AI:
I recently played the second battle in the Grand Campaign. I played the German VG battlegroup attacking a 106 ID battlegroup. I forget the town name but there were many buildings in it that the computer AI could set up in and a fair amount of woods on the northern side of the map also. I was given the upper right corner to deploy which only had two buildings and a few trees but no woods. The neutral area between us had many buildings which would help buffer my infantry and two SP guns. The computer AI had at least 15 buildings and woods on the north side to deploy in so I figured it would be a tough fight to root them out.
Carefully I advanced my infantry from building to building and into the nearest woods. After 10 minutes of this still had not seen any enemy. I had advanced through most of the town on the north side. Finally one of my infantry on the south side sees an enemy squad running in the open where it had deployed. I cut them down easy with some MG fire. My infantry on the north explore most of the woods and all of the buildings to the west and eventually spot an enemy squad dug in on the far side of the map. It is deployed on the side of the road next to some woods and near the exit to the map. This makes no tactical sense unless you want to abandon the map. Oh well, I just bring up my SP gun and kill them from a distance. Another squad in the woods next to this one opens up on my infantry.
So far, I have taken about 70% of the town and 80% of the woods. My next goal is to clear the houses to the south and check out the fields beyond that. I move through the entire town and don't find anyone. I take over the last two southern buildings only to find the rest of the U.S. force in plain view in a field near the southern exit road. This force includes several infantry and two large AT guns. I called in my off board mortars since these units are all bunched together in a field. They take heavy casualties before the time runs out and the battle ends.
In the end the enemy had about 30 dead or incapacitated. I had one dead, no wounded.
In conclusion: The Deployment AI decided to concede the entire town and about 80% of the woods YET it stuck around to defend the map from horribly exposed positions or from the woods near the exit where it had little or no field of fire. I was able to take every building without one casualty.
This is inexcusable. Where's the improvement in the AI?
