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AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:35 pm
by Japan
Can you in AE, order your Land Based Bombers to do "Navel Attack without regards to own losses".
Meaning, thay will attack evan when serverely outnumbered by enamy fighters?
This orders i beleve was given at more then one occation during the war.
Would also be nice if one can give a specific order about targeting Lines of Cummunications, or a specific Artillery unit if one has Intel about its location ect.
[:)]
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:46 pm
by Terminus
No.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:01 am
by wdolson
To flesh out Terminus' answer a little further. Those were out of scope.
Bill
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:55 am
by buzzz123
Interesting idea though Japan! Would be unrealistic to give the Allies the option of 'attack with no regard for losses', but probably would add to realism for Japan.
Same option could also be available to Japanese TFs - ie. "attempt to engage enemy forces with no consideration for personal survival".
Maybe in WitP II?? - but we will all be senile old man before that one sees the light of day!!
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:26 am
by spence
Interesting idea though Japan! Would be unrealistic to give the Allies the option of 'attack with no regard for losses', but probably would add to realism for Japan.
Same option could also be available to Japanese TFs - ie. "attempt to engage enemy forces with no consideration for personal survival".
Except that actual historical instances belie the underlying premise.
At Midway: All the various Midway-based bombers pressed home their attacks without fighter support and alone. The same may be said for Torpedo 8 and Torpedo 6. The fact that the attacks were ineffective does not detract from the determination with which they were pressed.
Off Guadalcanal: Mikawa retreats after a brilliant night attack in order to preserve his force.
Off the Aleutians (Komandorski Is): Hosigawa aborts his mission after being engaged by a force with half his firepower.
Off Samar: Kurita retreats after having a bad day with a handful of DDs/DEs.
Does Japanese senior leadership (Admirals) really deserve the high ratings for Leadership etc many of them are accorded in WitP? Seems to me they had a marked tendency to behave like Union General McClellan; hesitant and fearful to go 'all in'.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:05 am
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: Japan
"Can you in AE, order your Land Based Bombers to do "Navel Attack without regards to own losses"."
Would also be nice if one can give a specific order about targeting Lines of Cummunications, or a specific Artillery unit if one has Intel about its location ect.
[:)]
Sir....Seriously...you remind me of a Lt I knew at Bien Hoa...We could not find enough of him to send home.
Tragic.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:31 am
by Cavalry Corp
Bob
Your command idea belongs with WW1
Would you go and do it ?
Cav
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:32 am
by Cavalry Corp
sorry, damn that was for japan
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:52 pm
by Japan
Well the Japs could send out thair bombers with mission to sink enamy ships regardless of own losses...
[8D]
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:07 pm
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: m10bob
ORIGINAL: Japan
"Can you in AE, order your Land Based Bombers to do "Navel Attack without regards to own losses"."
Would also be nice if one can give a specific order about targeting Lines of Cummunications, or a specific Artillery unit if one has Intel about its location ect.
[:)]
Sir....Seriously...you remind me of a Lt I knew at Bien Hoa...We could not find enough of him to send home.
Tragic.
Someone was confused about their aiming point when they tossed a grenade? [:-]
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:35 pm
by Nomad
./.....
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:01 pm
by mikemike
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Someone was confused about their aiming point when they tossed a grenade? [:-]
This reminds me of a story IIRC from Wellingtons army in Spain, where before an attack a really unpopular officer begged his soldiers to give him a chance to be killed honorably by the enemy before they shot him in the back. Can't remember if they did him the favor. Those were the times where officers were supposed to lead from the front, which must have weeded out stupid bastards pretty efficiently. I guess lieutenants were usually on close season, perhaps even with a helping hand from NCOs if they seemed likely to be useful when grown up.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:08 pm
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: m10bob
ORIGINAL: Japan
"Can you in AE, order your Land Based Bombers to do "Navel Attack without regards to own losses"."
Would also be nice if one can give a specific order about targeting Lines of Cummunications, or a specific Artillery unit if one has Intel about its location ect.
[:)]
Sir....Seriously...you remind me of a Lt I knew at Bien Hoa...We could not find enough of him to send home.
Tragic.
Someone was confused about their aiming point when they tossed a grenade? [:-]
Nope, not the case at all.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:55 pm
by buzzz123
ORIGINAL: spence
Interesting idea though Japan! Would be unrealistic to give the Allies the option of 'attack with no regard for losses', but probably would add to realism for Japan.
Same option could also be available to Japanese TFs - ie. "attempt to engage enemy forces with no consideration for personal survival".
Except that actual historical instances belie the underlying premise.
At Midway: All the various Midway-based bombers pressed home their attacks without fighter support and alone. The same may be said for Torpedo 8 and Torpedo 6. The fact that the attacks were ineffective does not detract from the determination with which they were pressed.
Off Guadalcanal: Mikawa retreats after a brilliant night attack in order to preserve his force.
Off the Aleutians (Komandorski Is): Hosigawa aborts his mission after being engaged by a force with half his firepower.
Off Samar: Kurita retreats after having a bad day with a handful of DDs/DEs.
Does Japanese senior leadership (Admirals) really deserve the high ratings for Leadership etc many of them are accorded in WitP? Seems to me they had a marked tendency to behave like Union General McClellan; hesitant and fearful to go 'all in'.
Good points Spence. Was not thinking of Midway re. AC actions.
And certainly i agree that most Jap admirals turned and ran more than stood and fought. Several times at Guadalcanal, Aleutians, Leyte, etc may have all turned out very differently if the admiral in charge had been a little more willing to stick around.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:29 pm
by Jorm
ORIGINAL: Japan
Can you in AE, order your Land Based Bombers to do "Navel Attack without regards to own losses".
Meaning, thay will attack evan when serverely outnumbered by enamy fighters?
[:)]
yeah, they are called Kamikaze
But i hope AE models British pilots suffering extra fatigue if they take off with out morning tea !!!
or perhaps why dont they model all losses of left handed screw drivers from USN 4 stack destroyers and its effect on chiniese unit moral
or better still they just have to model all New Zealanderer units sercret sheep stealth tank and the major impact it had on the defence of tiwi island !!!!!!
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:11 am
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: Jorm
But i hope AE models British pilots suffering extra fatigue if they take off with out morning tea !!!
Its in there.
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:40 am
by thegreatwent
Hmm. Japan seems a little over anxious to suicide his pilots IMO[X(]
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:26 am
by Japan
Well, no but i know of sevral incidents were the Japs had Bombing raids, without regards to own losses, evan Finland had in the Finnish war, and Germany on the East front. The order semes to be one who are given from time to time, without it being a Kamakazi attack...
I know in WITP Level Bombers dont do this, but maby have a "button" who enables this order if needed.
[8D]
RE: AE - Air Arrack Options?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:36 am
by wdolson
WitP I already does this based on unit morale, experience, and leadership. If they are high enough and the target high enough value, they will go in against the odds to try and get a hit.
Bill