Matrix Games Forums

Another thread got me thinking about this...

Do anyone know of a tactical naval warfare game? Specifically in WW2, handling both surface combat and air / carrier combat? (Perhaps an old DOS game?)

For example, something that recreates Leyte Gulf at the level of individual ships, submarines, air squadrons, etc. I suppose Pacific Storm or Battlestations Midway / Pacific do this, though in a very arcadey fashion. I was thinking of realistic equipment, numbers, ranges, etc. though certainly time-accelerated.

It would be especially interesting to see something like this in a WITP-like strategic framework; sounds vaguely like the planned Carrier Force. This would be like Forge of Freedom or the Total War series.


EDIT: Based on the feedback below, here is what we have.

• Action Stations! (1991, DOS): This is a mostly text-based simulator covering surface combat from 1922 to 1945, in great detail.
• Task Force 1942 (1992, DOS): Surface and air combat in the Guadalcanal campaign in the South Pacific. A recent review can be found here.
• Carrier Strike (1992, DOS): Carrier-centric combat in the South Pacific, with a look-and-feel similar to Gary Grigsby's Pacific War.
• Great Naval Battles: North Atlantic 1939-1943 (1992, DOS): Surface combat in the North Atlantic.
• Great Naval Battles Vol. II: Guadalcanal 1942-43 (1994, DOS): Surface and air combat in the South Pacific.
• Great Naval Battles Vol. III: Fury in the Pacific, 1941-1944 (1995, DOS): A continuation of the previous title, covering the entire Pacific theater.
• Great Naval Battles Vol. IV: Burning Steel, 1939-1942 (1995, DOS): Similar scope as the first GNB game, with some alternate history scenarios.
• Great Naval Battles V: Demise of the Dreadnoughts: 1914-18 (1996, DOS): As the name implies, this covers WW1. This was only available as part of a GNB package.
• Reviews of the first GNB game and the rest of the series.
• Fighting Steel: World War II Surface Combat 1939-1942 (1999, Windows): A successor to the GNB series, focusing solely on surface combat. This has been extensively enhanced by NWS as described here; they also sell the game itself.
• Carriers at War (2007, Windows): Most of you know about this one, but it bears mentioning: carrier-centric combat across the Pacific theater, focusing on finding and striking opposing task forces. It was preceded by two DOS titles in 1991 and 1993, by the same team. Long live SSG!
• Distant Guns and Jutland (2006, 2008, Windows): These cover the Russo-Japanese War and WW1 (respectively), though apparently they have some pretty restrictive DRM (see below).
• Navy Field (2006, Windows): A multiplayer online game developed by a South Korean company. Encounters consist of several player-controlled ships which can gain experience in battle and be upgraded. Very unrealistic (by design), but free to play with premium (paid) content available.
• Pacific Storm and Pacific Storm: Allies (2007, 2008, Windows): These cover the entire Pacific theater with a strategic layer and tactical combat resolution, similar to the Total War series. They are not very polished or realistic, but fun and only $15 for both on Steam.
• Battlestations Midway and Pacific (2007, 2009, Windows): Real-time naval and air combat in the Pacific in WW2. You direct several ships and planes, but can directly "jump into" individual units and control them directly. Quite unrealistic, but fun.

The DOS games are hard to find, but do run on modern machines in DOSBox. If you are interested in getting any of the DOS titles here, send me a PM and I can try to help. What is especially nice about the old games is their manuals: there are generally filled with interesting history and technical specifications. I have the manual for GNBNA, and it is almost 200 pages. Check out replacementdocs.com for some manuals.

Carrier Strike? The Great Naval Battles games?

Used to be a series of games called Great Naval Battles of WWII but they (IMHO) were nothing compared to TF1942 by Microsoft, (visually)..Both were 1st person,(put you on the ship itself), but the former did have the planes and the carriers..GNB2 is the one you might want, and yes, I blv it was only a DOS platform.

Man, I liked the Great Naval Battles games.  I was pretty sad when they wouldn't run on the newer machines.

The GNB game(s) were great.  I think somebody re-did them for NT, I think I saw them listed somewhere.  Or the old ones might work on DosBox.
 
-F-

I got the later GNBs to work.  I installed VirtualPC and DRDOS (available free online) and installed that on the virtual machine instead of MS DOS.  DR DOS is both faster and smaller than MS DOS. 

After having played WitP, I found the GNB games boring.  I used to love them though.  I played the big campaign in GNB II many times back in the day.

The ship to ship tactic combat is still fun, but the rest of the game was driving me nuts.

Bill

Task Force 1942 was the best WW2 naval wargame I played. GNB did not come close.

At the level of the individual engagement Task Force 1942 was excellent.  At campaign level, the AI couldn't cut it.
 
I would also recommend Alan Zimm's Action Stations.  Whereas TF 1942 operated in continuous real time, Action Stations was sliced into turns lasting 3 minutes (I think).  The graphics were primitive, reflecting its MS-DOS era development.  But I believe the research underlying the game was first rate, and even with a turn-based system the battles generated a lot of tension, particularly those conducted at night.
 
Action Stations is still available for download at Underdogs; for TF 1942 you'll need the Microprose disks and probably also a 5.25" floppy drive.[;)]

Yeah - remember many months happily playing TF1942

Gotta love the Underdogs - pity it still isn't updated these days.

GNB. Now that was something, although the later ones in the series had some odd quirks. Still those were the days. You not only got a great game, but great manuals to boot. Those were the days. Playing with the config.sys and autoexec.bat to squeeze a little more performance out of your 486. i can't think of any modern game that comes close.

I have Battle Stations Midway, but it won't run on my Vista system. There is however a new one comming out with more ships, features and covers the later part of the war. Don't expect a high degree of realism, but it will probably look beautiful.

Then there is Pacific Storm...I had the original and PS Allieds and I could never get that to run under XP. I Gave away Pacific Storm, but still have PS Allieds. I think PS Allieds is a standalone that can run with or without the original PS. I don"t really know because I gave up on it. Mabye when i get motivated I'll install it on my Vista machine, but from what I heard I should be prepared to be disappointed in many ways.

No aircraft but FIGHTING STEEL is still out there and has serious modders still adding and updating. Google it and you can download the modded version of the game.


http://forums.navalwarfare.org/showthread.php?t=6

ORIGINAL: patrickl

Task Force 1942 was the best WW2 naval wargame I played. GNB did not come close.

Agreed! I loved playing TF1942! I tried to reload it last year, but discovered that one of the installation disk had gotten corrupted...[:(][:(]

TOMLABEL

This isn't WW2, but I've heard some pretty good things about it. I haven't bought because the period doesn't appeal to me, but they may someday come out with a WW2 theme.

http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/home.html

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

This isn't WW2, but I've heard some pretty good things about it. I haven't bought because the period doesn't appeal to me, but they may someday come out with a WW2 theme.

http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/home.html

Beware, the DRM is unbelivable there!

You might want to check out comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-histrical first
Look for the threat:
JUTLAND Press release and
Jutland released

A little quote:
"or you have been away from home for a while and miss your games, all
you have to do is wait 7 days at most, and you can re-activate your
License(s) on any PC you wish without having to request another via
email! Because Seven days have passed, the old License(s) no longer
function!"


Excuse me? You gotta be kidding me!!!


From what I gather:

You have to be online to play (yes, even for single player)
If you don´t play for 7 days, your activation ceases and you have to reactivate, which can take up to 7 days
support is said to be horrible
Lots of issues with their DRM scheme

Personally, I wouldn´t touch this thing with a 15 foot pole, no matter how good it is as a game

Ralph Hoenig, Germany

yikes! that doesn't sound good at all.

Well that pretty much kills it for me.

What are they thinking! Or is it obvious they can't...............[8|][8|][8|]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Yeah - remember many months happily playing TF1942

Gotta love the Underdogs - pity it still isn't updated these days.

Isn't it strange to say...remember many YEARS of happily playing WitP! Wow this game has staying power.

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

This isn't WW2, but I've heard some pretty good things about it. I haven't bought because the period doesn't appeal to me, but they may someday come out with a WW2 theme.

http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/home.html

Beware, the DRM is unbelivable there!

You might want to check out comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-histrical first
Look for the threat:
JUTLAND Press release and
Jutland released

A little quote:
"or you have been away from home for a while and miss your games, all
you have to do is wait 7 days at most, and you can re-activate your
License(s) on any PC you wish without having to request another via
email! Because Seven days have passed, the old License(s) no longer
function!"


Excuse me? You gotta be kidding me!!!


From what I gather:

You have to be online to play (yes, even for single player)
If you don´t play for 7 days, your activation ceases and you have to reactivate, which can take up to 7 days
support is said to be horrible
Lots of issues with their DRM scheme

Personally, I wouldn´t touch this thing with a 15 foot pole, no matter how good it is as a game

Ralph Hoenig, Germany

I agree this approach sounds at first quite strange and having to be online is disturbing, but may be related to the way they try to market their product.

You download the full game for free and are able to play two scenarios as a demo and look into the other scenarios for a few minutes. IMHO this is a fair approach, you can really get an impression of everything you get if you buy.

If you want to buy, as I understand it you buy, get an activation code by e-mail and are ready to go for the full game.

The way I understand things, to make sure you don't use that code on multiple machines, share it with your 255 friends etc etc, if you want to use that code for an installation on a different machine, you have to wait for a couple of days. That's what the travel and miss your game comment relates to. I know a similar approach from a number of professional databases, which do not allow you to enter with block a password if it has been used from a different IP-address within a certain period of time before the request to enter. I think (but don't know) that as long as you play on one computer, I think you won't have to wait for a week for reactivation.

I agree that there may be reason to feel uncomfortable about that from a customer's point of view. At the same time, I think it is legitimate for a publisher to attempt to avoid sharing of serial numbers etc and don't know how to do that if you distribute the full package via internet so everyone can look into it.

I did touch it as I wanted to have a look at the demo... to me, it seems a lot like fighting steel in a WWI scenario with an updated graphics. Not my kind of game. Thus, I won't buy and I will kick it off my harddrive again.

Regards

Hartwig

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

At the level of the individual engagement Task Force 1942 was excellent.  At campaign level, the AI couldn't cut it.

I would also recommend Alan Zimm's Action Stations.  Whereas TF 1942 operated in continuous real time, Action Stations was sliced into turns lasting 3 minutes (I think).  The graphics were primitive, reflecting its MS-DOS era development.  But I believe the research underlying the game was first rate, and even with a turn-based system the battles generated a lot of tension, particularly those conducted at night.

Action Stations is still available for download at Underdogs; for TF 1942 you'll need the Microprose disks and probably also a 5.25" floppy drive.[;)]

I'll second this nomination... If you want to know what it is like sitting in flag plot waiting to feel what is happening in a night action because you absolutely cannot see it topside, and wondering just who is going to pop up just off your port side blind as a bat, or that sort of thing, Actions Stations is still the best tactical game out there. If you want fancy graphics, which didn't exist in WWII, or omniscient oversight, which also didn't exist, this one isn't it. But for sheer skull sweat... wonderful.

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow


The way I understand things, to make sure you don't use that code on multiple machines, share it with your 255 friends etc etc, if you want to use that code for an installation on a different machine, you have to wait for a couple of days. That's what the travel and miss your game comment relates to.

Unfortunately not.

There is a "Check every 7 days if you are still a legit user" routine within the game. If you don´t play for a week, the game can´t check and your activation will go belly up.
Then you can re-activate, but not right now, it will take up to 7 days until reactivation.

Possible scenario:
I have Jutland on my desktop and am off for holidays for a week
I come back on friday and want to start playing
No go, 7+ days no playing, activation canceled
Trying to reactivate
No go, next time to reactivate Monday at noon

Thank you - NOT!

When a company treats me as a thief that has to prove that he is not, that´s the point they lost me as a customer!

Btw. I can somehow understand (personally, I think DRM has cost the industry much more than it has brough them) DRM on mainstream titles, but for hardcore wargames? Oh, all those pirates are just WAITING to pirate WitP/HOI... [8|]


I don´t want this threat pulled into a DRM discussion, so I will say no more about it.


Ralph Hoenig, Germany