Matrix Games Forums

Gents -

RHSEOS 7.955 Turn 12/7/41 H2H planning my "Bandit Suppression" campaign in China. To optimize Japanese China Area Army forces:

> Use combined arms:

Air
> Base aircraft at a AF of the appropriate size ( level 4 + for bombers ) on or near ( road / rail ) a significant supply source within range of or co-located with a Air HQ.
> Use a HQ to draw supplies to the base.
> Meet level bomber (x2 times supply ) or non bomber (equal to or more ).
> Use pilots with low / no fatigue.
> Bomb the enemy base ( prior to initiating LCU combat ) for a period of time to soften up defenses.
> Keep ranges short to minimize fatigue / disruption.
> Recon w / specialized aircraft on a regular basis to raise the DL and MDL prior to increase bombing efficiency.

Ground
> Employ a well rested non disrutpted LCU with good leadership ( which combination of qualities are most important - am not sure yet )
> Do not attack at less that 1 to 1 odds; use shock attacks sparingly ( methodical - that would be me....)
> Use concentration of force but take care to use fewer high quality units with a Corps HQ on site ( allthough it eats supply first - I think ) and a Command HQ within range, if possible.
> Units should have required supply on hand prior to attacking ( ideally x2 combat bonus supply )
> Move into the enemy base hex and lay siege. IIRC this causes resource / supply / industry production to cease.
> Allow time for LCU's to remove fatigue and disruption between assaults ( w / plenty of supply on hand ).
> Keep the Chinese bandits from cutting my supply path. If this means attacking at less than ideal logistical conditions in poor terrain. so be it.

A few questions -

> I plan to ship supply from Japan to a large port connected by road / rail to the AF that will be used for offensive operations. My understanding is that the Air / LCU HQ will draw supply to the base if a LOC of good quality exists to the supply source /port. Of course there will always be spoilage...

> Thus the large sized, well supplied (locally or otherwise ) bases determine the best start points and avenues of attack ( to a greater or lesser degree ).

> All this will take time to shift units and aircraft around; but with 1500 plus turns to go this should not be a problem....

Now, as the Chinese player -

I will use the chinese forces aggressively to cut roads and rail lines as much as possible, even if it results in the destruction of partisan units. Chinesse units return as reinforcemets fairly quickly and can - from what I have read (RHS Handbook) be quite resilliant and self sufficient in supply. If the Japanese want a base or location, they will have to fight for it - I will bleed them as much as possible. The Soviet aircraft available to China can potentially make themselves felt - if allowed to train long enough to their max level. Then perhaps some bombing and harassment of Japanese bases where the JAAF is not a presence to gain combat experience.

Well, thats the plan. I wanted to see what the pros have to say. I hope to make China an interesting and challenging campaign for both sides.

Mac

You have the basic ideas correct.

Chinese units that are lost reappear in 30 days. Note this is ALL "Chinese" units - including some representing other countries.
A key example is the Viet Minh: if a Viet Minh battalion is wiped out - it will also reappear in China. If a new unit cannot appear at its designated point - including the Viets - it will appear anyway at the default location. The default location should be Chunking - but I have also read Kunming - and I have never lost a Chinese unit to find out.

Guerillas are self supplying. Sometimes static - they become mobile under pressure. [Viet Ming are ALWAYS mobile]

The key in China is to cause so much trouble that Japan cannot be effective inland due to logistic constraints. As well - the tri city Wuhan complex is a logistic boon if you control it - and feeds YOU along the loc for offensive operations. The Yantze is the main highway in China - and a smart Japanese is going to use it to move supplies and provide bombardment support. Even major ships can sail as far as the first Wuhan hex - the Great Bridge being designed for the Queen Mary to pass benieth it. But even if they theoretically CAN move enough supplies, planes, troops to win in China - they can only do so at the expense of not sending them somewhere else - and that is why you fight in China. You cannot lose - Chunking cannot be taken (probably) IRL or in game terms - but why let him have supplies, shipping, air units, land units to mess around with????

ROCAF units can upgrade to other types. And eventually they even operated B-24s IRL - so don't think you must limit yourself to Russian types. It is a trade off - what you use in China isn't available for other places - so keep the Chinese at second priority - but if you have the planes - fine. Note you start with B-25s - technically - in a 3 plane recon element. You also have a few B-10s left from a previous period. There is a French Volunteer "Squadron" of high quality - and a mercinary unit with fighter, bomber, recon elements - all better than average for China. Other air units build up morale over time - and experience over more time. I rotate the units - when dismal they train back up - wnen fair - they look for weak points to attack.

RHS deliberately made big changes in China. It has mountains - as IRL. It has rivers - including the Yangtze Gorge. It has its own industry - a real air force - and some special units. A few of the armies are very strong - the rest can be if you let them sit on a supply source and grow fat. The guerillas tend to supply themselves - the Reds are better at it than the ROCs - representing feeding off the local area. China should never be conquered - but it can be a major source of resources for Japan - and it is better not to let the Japanese have it cheap and easy.

Hi, Sid -

The key in China is to cause so much trouble that Japan cannot be effective inland due to logistic constraints

This sums up the Chinese mission - Mao's Route Armies and Chiang Kai Shek's conscripts.

Chinese units that are lost reappear in 30 days. Note this is ALL "Chinese" units - including some representing other countries

Informative - I was not aware of the last. Good news - for the Chinese.

As well - the tri city Wuhan complex is a logistic boon if you control it - and feeds YOU along the loc for offensive operations. The Yantze is the main highway in China - and a smart Japanese is going to use it to move supplies and provide bombardment support. Even major ships can sail as far as the first Wuhan hex - the Great Bridge being designed for the Queen Mary to pass benieth it. But even if they theoretically CAN move enough supplies, planes, troops to win in China - they can only do so at the expense of not sending them somewhere else - and that is why you fight in China. You cannot lose - Chunking cannot be taken (probably) IRL or in game terms - but why let him have supplies, shipping, air units, land units to mess around with????

I will give thought as to how Imperial Troops can facilitate the siezure of Wuchang / Wuhan and, optimize the use of His Majesty's Gun Boats and River Foltillas.

The Yantze is the main highway in China - and a smart Japanese is going to use it to move supplies and provide bombardment support.

General Hata, ( the direct representative of the Son Of Heaven in China ) feels that it should be the main Japanese highway in China - and so it shall be. Shoganai.

ROCAF units can upgrade to other types. And eventually they even operated B-24s IRL - so don't think you must limit yourself to Russian types. It is a trade off - what you use in China isn't available for other places - so keep the Chinese at second priority - but if you have the planes - fine. Note you start with B-25s - technically - in a 3 plane recon element. You also have a few B-10s left from a previous period. There is a French Volunteer "Squadron" of high quality - and a mercinary unit with fighter, bomber, recon elements - all better than average for China. Other air units build up morale over time - and experience over more time. I rotate the units - when dismal they train back up - wnen fair - they look for weak points to attack

Part of the strong appeal of RHS is not only a plethora of unique formations but also the variable quality in the mix of units that are dealt to the player. I love having Thai Axis Hawks and Submarines - "Asia for Asians!" ( Sorry - got a bit carried away...) Even the lowliest of conscript or obsolesent aircraft can perform credibly in combat when given time to train and "gently" introduced to battle ( i.e. using techniques that are not " gamey " to increase experience ). Vinegar Joe Stilwell will have his chance.... ( if "Peanut" does not interfere. [ Stilwell and the American Experience in China, 1911 - 1945: Barbara Tuchman ] )

RHS deliberately made big changes in China. It has mountains - as IRL. It has rivers - including the Yangtze Gorge. It has its own industry - a real air force - and some special units. A few of the armies are very strong - the rest can be if you let them sit on a supply source and grow fat. The guerillas tend to supply themselves - the Reds are better at it than the ROCs - representing feeding off the local area. China should never be conquered - but it can be a major source of resources for Japan - and it is better not to let the Japanese have it cheap and easy.

Still have difficulty positively identifiying some of the terrain types - this is no reflection on CobraAus's quality workmanship - rather it is a reflection of my inexperience. Playing time will help ameliorate this challenge.

Victory Games "Pacific War" ( if I recall the title correctly ) allowed only one major operation at a time by the Allied or Axis payers, to reflect the difficulty of conducting multiple simultaneous operations. WITP / RHS is under no such constraints. However, after reviewing the supply situation in China, it might be wise ( initially, until more supply is generated or shipped in ) to carefully choose my axis of advance and them make the appropriate unit adjustments, conducting only such actions elsewhere as needed to keep LOC's open. What appeals to me is the paucity of supply and fuel - so that I have to carefully plan logistics first to maximise the combat effect of the troops involved.

Sid - When a friendly base has enemy units co located in the same hex ( with or without combat ) -

> all resource and industry ceases to function?

> No supply created / originates in the co occupied hex? No supply flows into the hex appart from what is inherently carried by the opposing units? Have read the rules carefully - still not getting a clear picture.

This will be my first tutorial attempt after a number of years. The difference is that I understand so much more, have a clear understanding of what basic steps must be taken and am receiving first class support and direction from the forums.

Thanks for all,

Mac

It is said - in the WITP Manual - on the Forums - that if a unit enters a hex all industry ceases to operate. However - supply WILL FLOW INTO that hex if there is a place it can flow from. And the stockpiles in the hex are still in the hex. And units will "share" supplies with each other - dieing slowly together. As far as I know only one slot does not share supplies. In stock and CHS this is the Pearl Harbor fort. In RHS it is the fort unit at Olongapo/Bataan - representing Corregedor, Fort Drum, etc.

Hi, Sid -

Thanks for the Scenario update ( RHSEOS 7.957 Scn 75 )

RHSJFO looks interesting, I'll put it ( and EEO ) on my furture "to play list". Thanks for the forum help; this is a major break thru for me - I really feel as if I have solid grasp as to what initial steps to take and how to do it. There are many more questions, I will post as they become relevant. I am confident that the RHS team will continue to produce a quality product after the arrival of AE. While not a program guy, I do understand some of the difficulties you will face with AE's differing format. Obstacles are placed in our life to be overcome - with ingenuity and intellegence; I do not believe that this will slow you or the team down; your job is to " think outside of the box " - that is what you do best.

Mac

While from time to time we do manage to do something never designed into WITP -
that isn't what we do in the main. Modding is essentially done "inside the box" - and that we can do it at all
is because Matrix designed it that way. What Matrix did that was brilliant was supply a box - what it could
not afford the labor to do was massive amounts of research and data entry. Now - for AE - it seems it even
has found a way to do that - harnessing the energy of the Forum its open architecture spawned. The
next generation product must represent a better one - in spite of iherant limitations in the rather old box itself -
because it is more implemented than the original generation was. The first generation prooved the market.
AE may do the same thing on a deeper scale. That might result in a WITP II product far better develoed than
anything ever seen before. That - at least - is the dream. But - with only a few exceptions - we are limited by
the limitations of the box itself. One thing that is kind of good is the later generation boxes are being done in the
context of feedback from the user community. We probably have not seen the end of it - assuming Matrix keeps
selling games. [It is in our interest to see that it does]