Matrix Games Forums

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time. With two games on similar subjects, will a game with (no offense to matrix, I personally like turned based better) better graphics and a real time stratagy aproach forshadow the new CoG?

Curious for other people's thoughts on the matter, thanks!

Nope...I may well get both, but if I am only getting one it will be this.

These people done remarkable things with Forge of Freedom...

Empire surely does have the "fancier" (better is a relative term to each individual) graphics, but my experience of the Total War games suggest they are aimed at the mass market as opposed to the more niche "hard core" wargamer. Besides, Total War politics has always sucked...seemed pointless putting it in to me.

**hides in corner and waits for everyone to remind him that it's called Total War for a reason** [:'(]

For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.

DRM.......................ducks and runs.[:D]

But really.....I will get both, but if had to choose, well it would be this one........Forge sold me that they put alot of time and effort into the game.

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.

Dont look now but you were the first to mention DRM. Oh and BTW before you shoot yourself what is DRM?

[:D]

ORIGINAL: Jonah

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time.

They are different beasts.

Cog:EE is more of a simulation type grand strategy game for more serious wargamers and Empires Total War will be like all the other Total War series and be more arcadey and focused on eye candy.

I will get both, but the last Total War I really really liked was the first Medieval.

ORIGINAL: Mus

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.

Dont look now but you were the first to mention DRM. Oh and BTW before you shoot yourself what is DRM?

[:D]

Hmm. Seems I've hijacked my own thread! DRM is copy-protection protection software that is extremely unpopular over at Wargamer.com (not to mention various other places), leading to countless discussions of it. My comment, made in the knowledge that a lot of you would appreciate the reference, was an allusion to this discussion of COG:EE: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=308547

ORIGINAL: Jonah

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time. With two games on similar subjects, will a game with (no offense to matrix, I personally like turned based better) better graphics and a real time stratagy aproach forshadow the new CoG?

Curious for other people's thoughts on the matter, thanks!

It's a good question. My own thinking is that I'm not concerned about ETW cutting into sales, because I think the games are aimed at different markets, and people who are into Napoleonics will eventually buy both. If someone wants to buy ETW now and gets COG:EE in six months that's still a sale, so it's no big deal. Moreover, there's reason to think that there can be some amount of synergy when comparable products come out at the same time. For example, people visiting this thread who didn't know before about ETW now do, and might end up purchasing it as well, while COG:EE may well be discussed in forums and threads devoted to ETW, intriguing fans of that game enough to come here. (All it takes is one person who owns both games making a favorable comment about COG:EE in an ETW-oriented thread and there is a change of increased sales for COG:EE.) Furthermore, ETW is bound to get more mainstream reviews than COG:EE will, but perhaps there will be some reviewers who are aware of COG:EE and mention it in their ETW review. So, in general, the release of ETW will create more interest for games devoted to this era, and might even lead to some positive buzz for COG:EE specifically.

I look at it this way:
ETW will open up the age of muskets to a lot of Total War fans (and others lured in by the media machine) and that will, in the long term, be a good thing for all Napoleonic games.
Especially as I think the gameplay in ETW, realism-wise, will pretty much suck - both on land and on sea.
So, some ETW players will undoubtedly start looking for more Napoleonic games (and, I assume, a lot of them will be looking for games with deeper/more realistic/more tactical/more strategic gameplay) and some of these will pick up COG: EE.

I will get both.

To the previous poster i hate the term more realistic because this term cannot be proved and for pity's sake these are games so they are not realistic in any way........

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Hmm. Seems I've hijacked my own thread! DRM is copy-protection protection software that is extremely unpopular over at Wargamer.com (not to mention various other places), leading to countless discussions of it.

Is that the one that ends up slowing down your DVD drive speeds? I had experience with a copy protection that did that to me and after reformatting I have tried to avoid copy protection like the plague.

LOL. Look what you did.

ORIGINAL: Flickjax

To the previous poster i hate the term more realistic because this term cannot be proved and for pity's sake these are games so they are not realistic in any way........

Sure I cant get shot in the arm and then get it sawed off without anesthesia in either game, but COG is hands down more "realistic" than Total War.

COG has division and now brigade level tactical battles inside a grand strategy shell while the Total War engines grand strategy is nothing but a race up a tech tree to build the strongest units and its tactical battle mode is moving around little blocks of 60-100 characters wearing period looking dress.

I like the Total War series, but it is neither historically accurate nor realistic and doesnt try very hard to be either or claim to be either AFAIK.

I remember during the development of Rome Total War several historian types complaining about the fact that the "egyption" faction was "pharaonic" instead of "hellenized" and had anachronistic units like chariots. The developer couldnt have cared less.

I agree that Empire: Total War (first I have heard of it, BTW) will bring more people into the area.  I am looking to buy some more in-depth games on the roman area because I have gotten back into Rome: Total War.  Great Invasions, here I come!
 
For those talking about "realism," I agree Rome:Total War sucked.  I have discovered lately that modders have totally changed the game.  For anyone who has it (and can pull yourself away from the WIF final countdown), I would suggest trying a Rome: Total War mod called Rome:Total Realism (I use the Extended Realism sub-mod). 
 
You will thank me (your wife will not).  I may be repaided with some new excuses for being glued to the computer, I have used up all my good ones.  [;)]

while the Total War engines grand strategy is nothing but a race up a tech tree to build the strongest units and its tactical battle mode is moving around little blocks of 60-100 characters wearing period looking dress.

 
   Not to forget that you really only get 20 units to actually play with an maneuver (only 16 in the origional TW series). Sure if you have the machine you can represent 10000 little men on the battlefield, but, still it all comes down to 20 units total no matter how many eye candy graphics you have on the screen. You get way more than that playing Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas.
 
   I have Forge of Freedom and the origional COG and very much look forward to COG:EE as I enjoy the tactical battles in this series a lot moreso than I do the last few TW games. I too like MTW(origional) the best. I didn't play Shogun or its expansion, how is it?
 
 

I'm probably going to purchase COG:EE, because I don't own a napoleonic era game yet. However Empire I rather rent from video store, as I did with the precursor title. TW games are nice to watch, but too shallow for my taste and I don't sped 50 bucks for something which get boring after a few hours.

COG-EE will probably be the first one I buy. I'll wait until hear more reviews from players regarding ETW.

Indeed, I bought, MTW, RTW and M2TW Gold, but I had to return M2TW because I couldn't get it to run on my system (Vista) due its copy protection (Securom I think it was). After I returned it, I began hearing about all these anomalies about M2TW. For instance, each turn was 2 years, the AI would never combine the navies, and more I can't think of at the moment. I was glad I returned it.

I'll probably be reviewing blogs for awhile before I ever buy ETW.

E:TW is 60 miles wide and 1/2 inch deep. COG:EE will be 45 miles wide and have the Marianas Trench at its bottom.

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

I too like MTW(origional) the best. I didn't play Shogun or its expansion, how is it?

Little OT but, Shogun was probably the best balanced of the series as it was an adaptation of the board game with the tactical battles playing out the results instead of dice in the original. Best balanced in a tactical sense as well as there were not as many units and every unit had a counter. Also morale and fatique were far more important in STW than in any other game in the series.

As soon as they abandoned the boardgame feel of STW and MTW I feel the series got a little hokey. The movement on the strategic map for one thing doesnt work at all.

As others have said I don't really think that the games are comparable.  You're comparing an arcade game to a simulation.  Not to say ETW won't be fun but it fills a different niche.  CoG:EE fills the simulation niche so if that's where your tastes lie, then you'll get it regardless of how ETW turns out. 
 
I think the only real concern is if the economy is going to allow people to buy any games at all!

The last decent 'Total War' was the first 'Medieval'. That said, I'll read some reviews from sensible sources, review the DRM situation and decide then. To be honest, if I abandon my principles in a moment of mad shop-a-holicism, 'Jutland' is a much more likely buy at the mo.

CoG:EE depends on pricing; a sensible upgrade option from CoG and I'll buy it, otherwise I won't.