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Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:17 am
by mbatch729
I know this has been asked before, but I can't find (or remember) the answer. Can Naval Air Units that have carrier capable aircraft be trained to the Carrier Trained designation?
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:25 am
by bilbow
In the word of Terminus,
No
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:19 am
by mbatch729
Are You his official terse responding stand in while he's on vacation from the forum??? [:D]
And Bill, from you I would have expected something more along the lines of "You never have any carriers, why bother asking???"
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:20 am
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: mbatch729
And Bill, from you I would have expected something more along the lines of "You never have any carriers, why bother asking???"
[:D]
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:33 am
by bilbow
ORIGINAL: mbatch729
And Bill, from you I would have expected something more along the lines of "You never have any carriers, why bother asking???"
Valid question,really. You'll have a couple or new targ.. err.. carriers in a few months. I look forward to their arrival.
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:09 am
by Crimguy
ORIGINAL: bilbow
In the word of Terminus,
No
I just don't get it (after 4 1/2 years). Why?
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:13 am
by Rainer
In WitP it's probably hard coded.
An interesting question would be if the new training missions in WitP-AE would allow to train units to be carrier qualified ("carrier trained").
But I doubt very much that the WitP-AE team had that on the laundry list (probably did not even come up in the priority list).
Maybe another idea for a patch or WitP2.
However, if the player can train air units to be carrier qualified which IRL were not this may or may not have an influence on the overall game balance, which should be considered carefully.
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:36 am
by castor troy
I seriously doubt that there´s a (big) difference between carrier trained and carrier capable in the game. If there´s any at all... did I do testing? No, I haven´t set up specific tests for doing this. What have I done? I´ve flown ten thousands of "training sorties" from carriers with carrier trained and carrier capable air units and never seen any difference in op losses during these training attacks from two hexes range against a target without flak. Perhaps even hundreds of thousands sorties when you consider that you have 1000 sorties within no time...
If there is a difference in the code between carrier trained and carrier capable then IMO it´s not as big as it should be... not at all...
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:38 am
by Rainer
Good news, me thinks.
If I understand correctly, you have used carrier trained groups "freely" with carriers?
I only used CVEs sometimes (mostly Long Island) to ferry Corsairs around. New Zealand to Lunga, for instance. When Long Island had reached the vicinity of Lunga I transferred the airplanes to the island, saving a day or two of the ferry process.
Now, what you are saying is I could as well use these planes in combat missions from a CV or CVE, right? (in lieu of the carriers involved, of course. Meaning observation of the numbers of planes on board).
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:30 pm
by Kull
ORIGINAL: castor troy
I seriously doubt that there´s a (big) difference between carrier trained and carrier capable in the game. If there´s any at all... did I do testing? No, I haven´t set up specific tests for doing this. What have I done? I´ve flown ten thousands of "training sorties" from carriers with carrier trained and carrier capable air units and never seen any difference in op losses during these training attacks from two hexes range against a target without flak. Perhaps even hundreds of thousands sorties when you consider that you have 1000 sorties within no time...
If there is a difference in the code between carrier trained and carrier capable then IMO it´s not as big as it should be... not at all...
In WitP, you are correct. The attrition difference, if any, was barely noticeable. However, one of the team guys posted elsewhere that those days are over in AE. Using carrier-capable units off carriers will result in "larger-than-WitP" level losses (my quotes). I can't find the post, but there were comments to the effect that you can't park carrier-capable aricraft on CVEs and use them as slow CVLs anymore.
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:24 pm
by Mike Solli
Hmm, can you still disband a carrier-capable unit into a carrier-trained unit and, voila, the pilots are then carrier-trained?
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:14 pm
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: castor troy
I seriously doubt that there´s a (big) difference between carrier trained and carrier capable in the game. If there´s any at all...
The Lex starts with 18 SB2Us aboard so I flew them off to Enterprise to make room for the Wake Marines. I lost 13 of the 18. They have an average experience of 50. I then flew the Wake fighters to the Lex and lost 7 of 12 of THEM. They too have an average experience of 50. Now from this little experience I would say you are wrong. I recommend training them up a tad before putting them on carriers and even then, only if you really have to.
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Hmm, can you still disband a carrier-capable unit into a carrier-trained unit and, voila, the pilots are then carrier-trained?
Ummm, yes and no.
First off, you cant disband an air unit that has a withdrawl date into another air unit - and I could be wrong on this part, but dont think so - IF it is within 120 days of its departure date (might be 90 days).
Secondly, you cant disband an air unit into another air unit if the target air unit is in excess of its max planes.
RE: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:25 pm
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: castor troy
I seriously doubt that there´s a (big) difference between carrier trained and carrier capable in the game. If there´s any at all...
The Lex starts with 18 SB2Us aboard so I flew them off to Enterprise to make room for the Wake Marines. I lost 13 of the 18. They have an average experience of 50. I then flew the Wake fighters to the Lex and lost 7 of 12 of THEM. They too have an average experience of 50. Now from this little experience I would say you are wrong. I recommend training them up a tad before putting them on carriers and even then, only if you really have to.
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Hmm, can you still disband a carrier-capable unit into a carrier-trained unit and, voila, the pilots are then carrier-trained?
Ummm, yes and no.
First off, you cant disband an air unit that has a withdrawl date into another air unit - and I could be wrong on this part, but dont think so - IF it is within 120 days of its departure date (might be 90 days).
Secondly, you cant disband an air unit into another air unit if the target air unit is in excess of its max planes.
67% op loss rate. Ouch!
YH, thanks for the second part too.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 9:20 am
by DeZanic
I was just about to ask the same question. Somewhere I thought if I let a carrier cappable unit train on a carrier for 100% it should get the trait carrier trained at some point but I think that was just a wet dream or something.
However, so carrier capable and carrier trained units dont have much of a difference?
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 11:15 am
by RangerJoe
DeZanic wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:20 am
I was just about to ask the same question. Somewhere I thought if I let a carrier cappable unit train on a carrier for 100% it should get the trait carrier trained at some point but I think that was just a wet dream or something.
However, so carrier capable and carrier trained units dont have much of a difference?
This was a very old thread.
So you dream while showering?
That would be a rather wet dream!
If the carrier capable unit is stationed on a carrier for 90 days, the unit becomes carrier trained. A carrier trained air unit should have fewer OPs losses.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 6:50 am
by Chris21wen
What Ranger Joe said. Stick a carrier capable ac on carrier and leave it, in 90 days it will be carrier trained. I've been testing these in a game just to confirm it and I'm 10 days away from doing just that. I will post here when I have the results.
As to losses, I've no idea but they will be heavy and I can say I've rarely done it and is not sensible unless you have dire need. Most I suspect lost on landing, taking off being the easy part. The later is the reason non carrier capable aircraft can be tranposrt on carriers and flown off during a transfer with few losses.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 4:40 pm
by RangerJoe
I suggest that you look in the operations report and see if you can find the planes there. It might take a few days for them to show up there.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 am
by BananaConvention
Chris21wen wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:50 am
As to losses, I've no idea but they will be heavy and I can say I've rarely done it and is not sensible unless you have dire need. Most I suspect lost on landing, taking off being the easy part. The later is the reason non carrier capable aircraft can be tranposrt on carriers and flown off during a transfer with few losses.
I've operated plenty of non-carrier trained squadrons on carriers in game and found the ops loss increase to be negligible. It's a non-issue to me. The need for aircraft on carriers exceeds my concern for the miniscule ops loss increase you may see prior to the 90-days.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 6:41 am
by Chris21wen
BananaConvention wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 am
Chris21wen wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:50 am
As to losses, I've no idea but they will be heavy and I can say I've rarely done it and is not sensible unless you have dire need. Most I suspect lost on landing, taking off being the easy part. The later is the reason non carrier capable aircraft can be tranposrt on carriers and flown off during a transfer with few losses.
I've operated plenty of non-carrier trained squadrons on carriers in game and found the ops loss increase to be negligible. It's a non-issue to me. The need for aircraft on carriers exceeds my concern for the miniscule ops loss increase you may see prior to the 90-days.
As I've said rarely done except in emergencies and then never monitored it so I'll go with what you said.
Having said that there should be more losses then, landing on something that's small and bouncing around is no mean feat even for a trained pilot although in the game it isn't the pilots that become trained, it's the air group.
Re: Carrier Capable --> Carrier Trained
Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 8:18 pm
by Sardaukar
Yea, Carrier Capable unit does not suffer too many ops losses compared to Carrier Trained.
It happens to many that they try to use e.g. F4U-1 on carrier...not capable. But that is different thing and historical.