Matrix Games Forums

I've been lurking on this board for several months now, and as the game seems to be getting its act into a single pile, I have a question that seems critical before I make a decision on purchasing it.
IMHO, the only really interesting strategic question of this war involves the German decision to attack France and Belgium in 1914. Von Moltke's decision in 1913 to scrap the "attack East, defend West" alternate warplan, and his consequent inability to provide the Kaiser with any strategic alternative to the Schlieffen Plan probably cost Germany the war even before it started. The British Liberal government certainly wouldnt have gotten involved in a war which didn't involve a violation of Belgian neutrality, or where the French attacked Germany, or sought a declaration of war from Parliament in support of the Tsar.
So what I'd like to know is: does the game provide for or allow the Germans to attack the Russians while staying on the defensive in the West, thus keeping the UK neutral? I'd think that this would make a really interesting scenario, and settle a long standing historical question.
(Another possible alternative would involve someone shooting Alfred von Tirpitz somewhere around 1897. This would probably have resulted in British neutrality (at worst, again with the caveat of Germany maintaing Belgian neutrality) and two additional German first line infantry corps and two additional reserve corps in exchange for the Hochseeflotte. Which to my mind would have been an excellent bargain.)

There are multiple war plans to choose from. Two of the German choices would increase the importance of the eastern front. So, you can remain on the defense in the west and offense in the east.

You should install the demo game from ageod and check it out.

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

There are multiple war plans to choose from. Two of the German choices would increase the importance of the eastern front. So, you can remain on the defense in the west and offense in the east.

You should install the demo game from ageod and check it out.

But does the strategic choice to go East gain you British neutrality? There'd be no other reason to do it. With British neutrality, there is no blockade, no English aid to Russia, access to American and Commonwealth manufacturers and resources, not to mention the 2 corps abscence of the BEF.
Does anyone thing that it would be possible to mod in British Neutrality?

Initial war plans may be modded yes. From files quick glance, it should be possible to create such a plan.

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

Initial war plans may be modded yes. From files quick glance, it should be possible to create such a plan.

Excellent! Thanks very much Blueprinnt![&o]

Any of you crazed modders care to give it a shot?I've just finished re-reading Churchills "The World Crisis" (the 6 volumn veresion) and I wrote my senior dissertation for my BA History on the Naval Arms race of 1905 - 1914 so I'm somewhat knowledgeable about the period. (Not to mention holding the All School Championship in Diplomacy two years running.) But I have a hard time programing my palm pilot, and my 8 y/o grandson writes better code than I do. I'd be happy to help, though.

[Deleted by Admins]

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

There are multiple war plans to choose from. Two of the German choices would increase the importance of the eastern front. So, you can remain on the defense in the west and offense in the east.

You should install the demo game from ageod and check it out.

But does the strategic choice to go East gain you British neutrality? There'd be no other reason to do it. With British neutrality, there is no blockade, no English aid to Russia, access to American and Commonwealth manufacturers and resources, not to mention the 2 corps abscence of the BEF.
Does anyone thing that it would be possible to mod in British Neutrality?

It doesn't guarantee you British neutrality but you do get a fair shot compared to invading Belgium (when it's virtually certain that they enter the war). First round diplomacy is touch and go; the British are (correctly) modelled as leaning towards entering the war anyway due to the longstanding rivalry with Germany - Belgium was just an excuse anyway. This is modelled by having (a) a diplomatic starting point for Britain leaning toward the Entente and pretty much near the brink; (b) a steady slide by them towards war after every round, and (c) a random "jolt" only on the first round for all neutrals (particularly Britain, Romania and Greece). If you pour all your diplomatic resources towards Britain, don't invade Belgium AND are lucky with regards to the Entente player's diplomatic effort and the "jolt" as described above, then you avoid getting them in against you in the first round. From that point onwards you can keep piling on the diplomatic pressure and it gets easier - the AI gets distracted and targets other countries every round, whereas if you focus on just one you will succeed. After a few diplomatic successes even the steady degradation of relations with Britain after every round stops and they become true neutrals.

I have once managed a "Triumph of Diplomacy" CP game (I always play the CP - the Entente is too easy) where:

-Italy got in the war on my side at the start by playing the "Diplomatic Poker" option at the start -effectively waiting for the alliance system to play properly and getting war declared on me by France, effectively disabling Italy's RL pretext for staying out due the war being "aggressive".

-Britain -barely- stayed out in the first round, and then I piled on the diplomats until I got them completely neutral. The frustrating thing is that the AI barely countered me after the 2 crucial August rounds.

-Romania, Turkey and Bulgaria entered the war in close succession in 1915 - the AI completely lost it and focused on neutrals like Holland, Spain and the like which can only help it when a blockade is in force and never enter the war.

That is really the point in the end: if Britain stays out you really can't lose. It gets rather boring. I prefer games with Britain in, but where I manage a more complete "Central Powers" strategy, with Italy and possibly Romania on my side. To be fair even just Italy on the side of the CP pretty much guarantees victory since the French AI really doesn't handle the Provence front against the Italians well. You can send 75% of the Germans plus half the Austrians against the Russians, the other half of the Austrians (incl. the 2 armies which usually guard against Italy - which is now a friend) to run amok in the Balkans, even without any more allies there, and keep a quarter of the Germans plus the Italians to steamroll the French. If you are even moderately good in the tactical aspects of the game, the Russians should be revolting by late 15-early 16 and the French should be on their having lost all their Med seaboard to the Italians. The blockade doesn't have a chance to work its magic so early.

But back to the diplomatic model, which is rather brilliant I must say - just reading the rules on the manual is fun. The problem with it really is the AI which is virtually brain-dead. It shouldn't be too difficult to put a little algorithm (a bit of game theory would be nice, but a little algorithm would be enough) where the AI prioritises its efforts as follows:

-Britain (vital, all other efforts should be suspended until they get in, or at least until the German player manages to tip the balance of Britain's attitude past the "regular sliding" tipping point)

-Countries that can get in the war on either side (since you not only gain an ally, but deny him to your opponent):
Italy, Romania, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey in that order.

-Countries that can only get in the war on your side: Japan, USA, Portugal for Entente, China, Afganistan, Persia for Germany.

-True neutrals that can only affect the blockade, if it exists, and the economic war in general (the Scandis, Holland, Spain etc)

Oof, long post.

If Germany does not attack Belgium and makes a major diplomatic effort in the UK from the outset, it is possible to keep the Brits out of the war. I have played into 1917 with the UK still very much in the neutral zone.

Just avoiding the west is no guarantee to keeping Britain neutral-far from it. I think every time that I tried an "east first" approach, but sent my initial diplomatic effort to Turkey, the UK DoW's the CP within a month or two.