Matrix Games Forums

I have noticed that Matrix rarely if ever has a demo for their new games, why? Battlefront puts out a demo for just about every game they do. Why can they do it and not Matrix. Will Matrix put out a demo on MWIF? and if not why?

Willy

ORIGINAL: willycube

I have noticed that Matrix rarely if ever has a demo for their new games, why? Battlefront puts out a demo for just about every game they do. Why can they do it and not Matrix. Will Matrix put out a demo on MWIF? and if not why?

Willy

I have talked with Dave Heath about this and he said demos haven't worked out for them. I forget the details/examples he provided (that converstaion was 2 or 3 years ago).

From my perspective, doing a demo would be a lot of additional work. And no, it isn't "well, just turn stuff off ...". There are 60 phases to the sequence of play and when you add in subphsases and sub-subphases the number is over 150. Messing around with all that code (300,000 lines), with the inherent risk that changing things may make other things not work, would have to generate a huge payoff. Providing a demo doesn't.

There will be a training video that will go through the main game elements (e.g., movement and combat). Though that may or may not be available prior to purchase - not my decision to make.

You could have a Demo of sorts - just use the Barbarossa scenario and limit the turns, say to 4.

No need to change any of the code that deals with processing a turn, just a cutoff point on a particular turn.

Steve maybe it would be to hard for this particilar game [mwif] to create a demo, but Recon had a point with a small demo. Again if Battlefront does it for almost every game to allow people to get an idea what the game might be like before they spend 45 to 80 hard earned dollars on a bomb which I have done too many times with other companies, it sounds like to me Matrix wants you to buy their products sight unseen. Wrong!
 
Willy

ORIGINAL: Recon

You could have a Demo of sorts - just use the Barbarossa scenario and limit the turns, say to 4.

No need to change any of the code that deals with processing a turn, just a cutoff point on a particular turn.

MWIF is designed to run any of the 11 scenarios, any of the 90 optional rules, and in 5 different modes of play.

It really needs the tutorials for the player to make any sense out of the game at all. Which means the interactive tutorial system which loads saved games.

I could go on with this list, but it is not "just stop at turn 4".

ORIGINAL: willycube

Steve maybe it would be to hard for this particilar game [mwif] to create a demo, but Recon had a point with a small demo. Again if Battlefront does it for almost every game to allow people to get an idea what the game might be like before they spend 45 to 80 hard earned dollars on a bomb which I have done too many times with other companies, it sounds like to me Matrix wants you to buy their products sight unseen. Wrong!

Willy

Willy,

It is of course your decision. [:)]

Personally, I have no faith in demos myself, since I have seen software demos hard-coded to do exactly what the specs say they should do. They always did the same thing since there was no executing logic underneath - the demo was only a facade. After 40+ years in the computer business I have a very cynical view of software. [And I spend a lot of time every day cursing the programmers who wrote the tools I work with.]

I agree, and I only have about 25 years in software jobs.

I also cannot fathom a demo for MWIF being inclusive enough to influence people.

Keep up the good work.

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I agree, and I only have about 25 years in software jobs.

I also cannot fathom a demo for MWIF being inclusive enough to influence people.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah - what he said. 36 years for me.

Well, we are getting a very good look at the game with these forums. It isn't a demo, but it may take the place of one for many people.

First Steve I trust you enough to put out a good game and back it with your heart and soul, I was not trying to be negative just curious why two companies are so different about demos, what you said makes sense about the coding to make it look good, I am not promoting Battlefront in any way could care less about them but I downloaded several demos from them and knew I would never buy that game because it was not in my comfortable range of war games. Outside of 3rd Reich board game most games are made up from actual battles or mythical battles that may or may not have occured in history but at the programmers discretion of what he or she may think is the correct way to do a game or how they would like to see the battle play out. I realize you are in a glass bowl because too many players know this game [MWIF] and you will have to do an almost perfect replica of the original board game, so I stand corrected about a demo for MWIF and eagerly await July 27th, hopefully 2009 hehe.

Willy

In this day and age, perhaps the best demo would be YouTube footage of a game being played by an experienced playtester.

That should show what the game encompasses and that the game plays well.

Desktop recordings with voice overs of the various game aspects are the best IMHO. The more the better.

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Desktop recordings with voice overs of the various game aspects are the best IMHO. The more the better.

You just described what we are refering to as the Training Video.

Don't I remember being able to download a copy of the game? Without AI, but a working copy of the game. Where those with previous experience with WiF could look at it and get it to play?

Or was I dreaming at the time and just wishing the project along?

Good Hunting.

MR

You are thinking of the old CWiF beta (CWiF was the predecessor to MWiF). It is available for download (for a price) from ADG's website. It is rather buggy, but serviceable.

Just wait a bit for the reviews of the specialist and the reaction on grognard forums and you will know if it is worth of not. Sure it will, I would bet !

It's hard to imagine a demo comprehensive enough to show-case MWiF sufficiently to influence a potential buyer without the demo itself being a long-drawn-out affair.

Demos are nice, but there has to be a cost/benefit analysis to them, and I'd think that the benefit side for a game like MWiF would be found a little wanting, not only because of the games complexity, but also because of it's relatively limited (and thus relatively informed) audience.

ORIGINAL: OzHawkeye

It's hard to imagine a demo comprehensive enough to show-case MWiF sufficiently to influence a potential buyer without the demo itself being a long-drawn-out affair.

Demos are nice, but there has to be a cost/benefit analysis to them, and I'd think that the benefit side for a game like MWiF would be found a little wanting, not only because of the games complexity, but also because of it's relatively limited (and thus relatively informed) audience.

Thank you Hawkeye I agree but what I was trying to get across also was Matrix never puts out a demo of any game to my knowledge, Battlefront does on every game and you can tell real quick whether this game will fill the bill so you dont throw your money away. Your comment on the limited number who might by this game and understand this game is right on never thought of that thank you.

Willy

ORIGINAL: willycube

ORIGINAL: OzHawkeye

It's hard to imagine a demo comprehensive enough to show-case MWiF sufficiently to influence a potential buyer without the demo itself being a long-drawn-out affair.

Demos are nice, but there has to be a cost/benefit analysis to them, and I'd think that the benefit side for a game like MWiF would be found a little wanting, not only because of the games complexity, but also because of it's relatively limited (and thus relatively informed) audience.

Thank you Hawkeye I agree but what I was trying to get across also was Matrix never puts out a demo of any game to my knowledge, Battlefront does on every game and you can tell real quick whether this game will fill the bill so you dont throw your money away. Your comment on the limited number who might by this game and understand this game is right on never thought of that thank you.

Willy

How did you like the BFC demo for CMSF? Or did you wait for more than 10 patches before you bought it? A demo can be made to show whatever the owning company wants it to since they are often very limited in scope. If you think the game is questionable then wait for the reviews by GAMERS to be done on them.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: willycube

ORIGINAL: OzHawkeye

It's hard to imagine a demo comprehensive enough to show-case MWiF sufficiently to influence a potential buyer without the demo itself being a long-drawn-out affair.

Demos are nice, but there has to be a cost/benefit analysis to them, and I'd think that the benefit side for a game like MWiF would be found a little wanting, not only because of the games complexity, but also because of it's relatively limited (and thus relatively informed) audience.

Thank you Hawkeye I agree but what I was trying to get across also was Matrix never puts out a demo of any game to my knowledge, Battlefront does on every game and you can tell real quick whether this game will fill the bill so you dont throw your money away. Your comment on the limited number who might by this game and understand this game is right on never thought of that thank you.

Willy

I do agree that in principle and theory demos are a useful sales tools, even if in this particular case it would be more effort than its worth.