Concern about protectorate issues...
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:43 pm
I have been hearing rumors that the conquest of protectorates may be handled differently in upcoming patches...
Minor Country You Are Attacking is Not A Protectorate:
As it is now: You can declare war on a minor country and if no one takes it as a protectorate, you can invade it and keep any part of it you want to.
As it will be: No change
Minor Country You Are Attacking Is A Protectorate:
As it is now: You can declare war on a minor country and if someone takes it as a protectorate, you can invade it and keep any part of it you want to, even after you make peace with the protector.
As it will be: You can declare war on a minor country and if someone takes it as a protectorate, you are forced to return all of it, every piece, when you make peace with its protector.
My only real concern about this, is IF you attack a "minor" nation, like Poland (haha...I don't think "minor" is a good term for a Poland that stretched from Poznan to the eastern Ukraine) and they are taken on as a protectorate, you can't take any land from them. For instance, if I am Prussia and I declare war on Poland, and Russia takes them as a protectorate, I have to defeat Russia in a war to...
Wait. I don't even understand. That is the problem. How can I strip a few provences away from Poland if they are Russia's protectorate in a war? I won't be able to do that in the new patch? I can't remember if there is a treaty term which will transfer a protectorate to me directly (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't think there is (or I haven't used it yet). And even if there is... then I basically get ALL of Poland? What if Prussia would like to take a FEW provences from Poland as a result of a war with Poland in which it becomes Russia's protectorate?
The other concern is this: What are the odds against no one taking Poland as a protectorate to allow the partition of Poland as it occurred historically? Even if Prussia, Austria, and Russia agreed, Sweden would also have to be complicit it seems. And that seems a long shot perhaps (but then again, it may have been a long shot historically too and we see only one outcome of the game of history played once--so the partition of Poland may not be the "average outcome" in that situation if the game of history had been played 1000 times).
When I re-read the protectorate rules last night, I saw that in addition to being favorable to you, you also have to have 50,000 troops or more within 4 spaces to get them to ask for protectorate status. Do sea zones count as "one space" for this rule?
P.S. please also see the image below and look at the post 1772 border of Poland near Krakow. Then compare it to the map in the game. I feel the huge bulge in the game around Kracow is terribly distracting (because I am a map fiend) and turns what should be a short march from Prague to Lublin (L'wow) into a long march around this funny tumor hanging off of Poland. :)Isn't there any way of changing this? It seems that the area should belong to Austria (even though Kracow did belong to Poland).
Minor Country You Are Attacking is Not A Protectorate:
As it is now: You can declare war on a minor country and if no one takes it as a protectorate, you can invade it and keep any part of it you want to.
As it will be: No change
Minor Country You Are Attacking Is A Protectorate:
As it is now: You can declare war on a minor country and if someone takes it as a protectorate, you can invade it and keep any part of it you want to, even after you make peace with the protector.
As it will be: You can declare war on a minor country and if someone takes it as a protectorate, you are forced to return all of it, every piece, when you make peace with its protector.
My only real concern about this, is IF you attack a "minor" nation, like Poland (haha...I don't think "minor" is a good term for a Poland that stretched from Poznan to the eastern Ukraine) and they are taken on as a protectorate, you can't take any land from them. For instance, if I am Prussia and I declare war on Poland, and Russia takes them as a protectorate, I have to defeat Russia in a war to...
Wait. I don't even understand. That is the problem. How can I strip a few provences away from Poland if they are Russia's protectorate in a war? I won't be able to do that in the new patch? I can't remember if there is a treaty term which will transfer a protectorate to me directly (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't think there is (or I haven't used it yet). And even if there is... then I basically get ALL of Poland? What if Prussia would like to take a FEW provences from Poland as a result of a war with Poland in which it becomes Russia's protectorate?
The other concern is this: What are the odds against no one taking Poland as a protectorate to allow the partition of Poland as it occurred historically? Even if Prussia, Austria, and Russia agreed, Sweden would also have to be complicit it seems. And that seems a long shot perhaps (but then again, it may have been a long shot historically too and we see only one outcome of the game of history played once--so the partition of Poland may not be the "average outcome" in that situation if the game of history had been played 1000 times).
When I re-read the protectorate rules last night, I saw that in addition to being favorable to you, you also have to have 50,000 troops or more within 4 spaces to get them to ask for protectorate status. Do sea zones count as "one space" for this rule?
P.S. please also see the image below and look at the post 1772 border of Poland near Krakow. Then compare it to the map in the game. I feel the huge bulge in the game around Kracow is terribly distracting (because I am a map fiend) and turns what should be a short march from Prague to Lublin (L'wow) into a long march around this funny tumor hanging off of Poland. :)Isn't there any way of changing this? It seems that the area should belong to Austria (even though Kracow did belong to Poland).