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I was building my Allied force for an Operation Battleaxe scenario this PM, and found a problem with the estabs. When I went to do the infantry for the 11th Indian Bde, I couldn't find an entry for an infantry company in the Commonwealth estab. There's one for a CW motorized company, but nothing for non-motorized infantry. It would be a convenient and useful addition to the estabs were it to be included in future versions of SM.

I also noticed that there are no motorized versions of CW bde/div HQs.  This can really slow down the South Africans

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

I also noticed that there are no motorized versions of CW bde/div HQs.  This can really slow down the South Africans

You haven't lived until you've cobbled together the "Central India Horse" or "Prince Albert Victor's Own" regiment with SM.

It really brings out the creativity in a fella.[;)]

Seriously, though, could we fudge a bit and strip the "motorized" Indian companies of some of their trucks, or provide extra trucks to the unmotorized HQ?

@Dave,

Would those be effective measures to deal with the problem in the near term?

I don't mean to seem immodest by quoting myself, but I can answer my own question:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

...or provide extra trucks to the unmotorized HQ?

Those HQ have no vehicles, so I'm pretty sure that none can be added. [:-]

Estabs cant be modified (at least not with the tools available with the game). I've learnt so much so far from the threads in both forums.

But how does Panther team makes/modifies estabs? Hopefully they have some sort of editor, or is the whole thing hardcoded by hand with some source code templates that they have?

We use two rather crude tools. An Estab Editor to enter the data and spit out xml files and an Estab Manager to compile the xml files into the binary data used by the game.

Probably you have good reasons as to why not letting those tools out.
Is it maybe just that you are not satisfied with the suitability of UI of the current editors fot the masses. Or is the reason deeper, perhaps deepseded in the fact that correctly modellig weapons and units is a complex balancing process in its own right. One you dont want't to push onto the casual modders for fear of scaring them away... [:)]

ORIGINAL: Zorchi

Probably you have good reasons as to why not letting those tools out.
Is it maybe just that you are not satisfied with the suitability of UI of the current editors fot the masses. Or is the reason deeper, perhaps deepseded in the fact that correctly modellig weapons and units is a complex balancing process in its own right. One you dont want't to push onto the casual modders for fear of scaring them away... [:)]

Hi all,

Just wondering about PoE's request for non-motorized CW infantry units and motorized brigade Hq's at the start of this thread.
Arjuna, would it be possible for you folks to put a few new estabs along these lines in the interest of user scenario creation?? If BFTB is going to be followed by Normandy followed by the Eastern front it could be a couple of years (or a little longer) before you got back to the Med/N.Africa -- much less 1940/1941. Maybe as a little bonus included with BFTB as a seperate zip file or something for those who already have COTA??
Just a thought.........

Rob. [:)]

Not a bad suggestion Rob. I'm head down, tail up here trying to wrap up BFTB. Please remind me again once BFTB is out and I'll see what we can do.

Adding the CW estabs was kind of an afterthought to provide a different colour to the SA armoured car regiments and a few other units. I probably should have fleshed out the foot troops and motorized HQ's as well. For now any of the ANZAC estabs will have to suffice - except for colour they are identical to the CW estabs right down to the last Boys ATR.

Ah, but the Anzac bde/div HQ's are non-motorized as well. So I've used UK mot. inf. Bde/Div HQs. Looks funny, but it works. It's not usually that big of a deal, but if the AI is using those HQ's to control troops, it ends up slowing CW motorized infantry units as they are tied to their [slow] HQ. I can strip off all the subordinate units and send them forward (I'm thinking of the CoA Sidi Rezegh scenario), and let the HQ plod along on its own. Also, I just don't see the Bde or Div CG walking while his troops ride. RHIP.

I found what amounts to a typo in the German/Heer estabs, but it has practical implications for the game(so I thought that I should report it).

The following entry:

1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-15cm how

Is indicated as having 105mm howitzer:

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
Maybe as a little bonus included with BFTB as a seperate zip file or something for those who already have COTA??
Just a thought.........

Rob. [:)]

No worries, I'll modify the COTA estabs as suggested here and slip the update into the BFTB data Content folder when Dave isn't looking. [;)]

1. Add Motorized CW and ANZAC Bde and Div HQ's
2. Change 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-15cm how to 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-10.5cm how

Anything else?

Hey RIchard, I'm looking!

ORIGINAL: simovitch

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
Maybe as a little bonus included with BFTB as a seperate zip file or something for those who already have COTA??
Just a thought.........

Rob. [:)]

No worries, I'll modify the COTA estabs as suggested here and slip the update into the BFTB data Content folder when Dave isn't looking. [;)]

1. Add Motorized CW and ANZAC Bde and Div HQ's
2. Change 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-15cm how to 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-10.5cm how

Anything else?

At this point, that's about all that I can ask for, the amendments, I mean. [:)]

For the uninitiated, creation of proper estabs appear to entail not only painstaking and laborious research, but considerable clerical skills as well.

I'm a wargamer, and its my nature to want more of everything, and want it done in a fashion that suits my particular set of wants and prejudices.

That noted, I genuinely appreciate any help that Panther Games can lend in association with its legacy products.

On the long term, it'd be simply awesome if updates to the SM and the estabs could interface with the older games.

Might not be hurt sales, either. [;)]

Don't know if this is an estab issue, but I've been fooling around with a custom Sidi Rezegh scenario that uses the DAK's corps assets, and one weird glitch I've encountered is the 1st bty of flak bn 606 will disband into the 3rd bty the instant it loses it's first vehicle.  Repeatedly- every time without fail.  That leaves the 3rd bty as a really strong unit, which isn't a terrible thing, but it seems unusual to have that happen consistently.
 
 

At what strength does it start the scenario? How many guns does it have at the start of the scenario?

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

At what strength does it start the scenario? How many guns does it have at the start of the scenario?

Default full strength - 12 AA halftracks in each battery. Then one shot, and suddenly one battery is disbanded, and the other has 23-24 AA halftracks at that point. Nothing 'disappears' per se, but it is strange. I can provide a saved game, but I imagine you've got better things to do right now that would be more productive.

That is certainly weird. Yes I would rather not be distracted by this at the moment. However, we should look into it. Once BFTB is out we can do so.

Original: simovitch
No worries, I'll modify the COTA estabs as suggested here and slip the update into the BFTB data Content folder when Dave isn't looking. [;)]

1. Add Motorized CW and ANZAC Bde and Div HQ's
2. Change 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-15cm how to 1m-hr.pzd-Mot Mdm Arty Bty-10.5cm how

Anything else?

Under the German estabs, there's an entry for a brigade:

1m-hr.pzd-Schuetzen Bde HQ

But, there's no base unit included for that level.