Matrix Games Forums

I am a complete noob when it comes to these monster games but, I do have a very limited understanding of A3R/ Empire of the Rising Sun/ World at war. Is WiF a better system for those that know both?

In which areas does WiF excel? In what other areas does it lack compared to A3R?

One thing that I liked about A3R were the special rules regarding many of the neutral countries. Does WiF handle the various neutrals individually or there general rules regarding them?

Thanks in advance.

mo reb

To a simple reply... MO_Reb... please ck out the MatrixGames site for WiF, respectively.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/296 ... .In.Flames

With that being said, this game while still in development is going to be one of the best boardgame to PC
transitions! I am at an awe with this venture. I would like to see it as a stepping stone for Advanced
Squad Leader to be ported on to the PC platform (yeah, I know.. don't hold my breath!). Here's to hopes
and prayer's none the less. =)

ORIGINAL: Missouri Rebel

I am a complete noob when it comes to these monster games but, I do have a very limited understanding of A3R/ Empire of the Rising Sun/ World at war. Is WiF a better system for those that know both?

In which areas does WiF excel? In what other areas does it lack compared to A3R?

One thing that I liked about A3R were the special rules regarding many of the neutral countries. Does WiF handle the various neutrals individually or there general rules regarding them?

Thanks in advance.

mo reb

Used to play 3rd Reich before we found WiF. never touched it since.

ORIGINAL: tactician93612

With that being said, this game while still in development is going to be one of the best boardgame to PC
transitions! I am at an awe with this venture. I would like to see it as a stepping stone for Advanced
Squad Leader to be ported on to the PC platform (yeah, I know.. don't hold my breath!). Here's to hopes
and prayer's none the less. =)

You need to check out Panzer Command. While it's not at the point of Squad Leader it's pretty good and moving in that direction.

I'm not a good person to talk to about doing straight boardgame conversions though. I want to see the old board games COMPUTER IMPROVED!

There are lots of things that computers can do that a board game can't and IMO they need to be upgraded to take advantage of the computers abilities.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Missouri Rebel

I am a complete noob when it comes to these monster games but, I do have a very limited understanding of A3R/ Empire of the Rising Sun/ World at war. Is WiF a better system for those that know both?

Is college a better institution of higher learning that kindergarten?

There is that much difference between Advanced 3rd Reich and World in Flames. Only that the two of them are grand strategy games do they compare. Otherwise there is more of everything in WiF.

In which areas does WiF excel?

Name the area and Wif excels at it.

In what other areas does it lack compared to A3R?

It lacks nothing compared to A3R.

One thing that I liked about A3R were the special rules regarding many of the neutral countries. Does WiF handle the various neutrals individually or there general rules regarding them?

Thanks in advance.

mo reb

Neutrals are handled both generically and specifically. Some have their own forces others do not. WiF is multitudes better than A3R in all aspects.

Good Hunting.

MR

Mo_Reb: Don't listen to the WiF fanbois! I like WiF and plan on buying the computer version but to say that it is universally greater than A3R is just plain WRONG in many respects. (Disclaimer: I'm not completely versed with A3R or World at War but played 3R very extensively - and A3R is a modest improvement IMO). Two of the areas where 3R excels is play balance and the armor exploitation rules - which are a thing of beauty if used correctly - especially on the Russian front. 3R is unmatched for representing the ebb and flow across the Steppe. Yes, people will endlessly rag on the 9 factor fleets and such...and there are some valid complaints...but it is still one of the best strategic games ever printed.

ORIGINAL: mconder

Mo_Reb: Don't listen to the WiF fanbois! I like WiF and plan on buying the computer version but to say that it is universally greater than A3R is just plain WRONG in many respects. (Disclaimer: I'm not completely versed with A3R or World at War but played 3R very extensively - and A3R is a modest improvement IMO). Two of the areas where 3R excels is play balance and the armor exploitation rules - which are a thing of beauty if used correctly - especially on the Russian front. 3R is unmatched for representing the ebb and flow across the Steppe. Yes, people will endlessly rag on the 9 factor fleets and such...and there are some valid complaints...but it is still one of the best strategic games ever printed.

Yeah, and the fact that you could attack Leningrad at 3:1 odds and lose your entire attacking force was great too. So was the representation of strategic bombing, the Pacific theater, naval combat at all levels,economic/resource allocation, building of units according to training and equipment schedules, varying combat values,...the list goes on. I played 3R A LOT. When WiF came out I've never opened the box again.

But then we all have our opinions. He asked for ours and I gave him mine. It's no more or less valid than yours.

The best yard stick between the two may be that I don't see a huge following of 3R players clamoring for 3R to be converted to the computer. Where is the computerized version of 3R?

That should tell you something.

Good Hunting.

MR

If MWiF 1 is successful, Mad Russian, there will probably be an MWiF 2 - and a fair bit of idle and not-so-idle discussion on these fora has gone into how to take advantage of the power of computing to make changes to the game (beyond those enforced by the change to a universal single map scale). You may want to check some of those things out and come up with your own ideas on what could make WiF even better in its computer form.

WiF has an incredible ebb-and-flow across the Eastern Front at times. An extremely devastating Operation Bagration is quite possible in WiF as the Red Army rolls west, 20 hex-rows at once in Jul/Aug '44. Hope they invested in some MOTs to keep up.

To Mad Russian - the computerized version of 3R was out ten years ago. I played it do death with friends. It's still available.

But I agree that WiF is a better game overall. Avalanche's rework of 3R improved it dramatically, in my opinion, but WiF is better.

Where is the computerized version of 3R?

What gravyhair said: It was published several years ago, much earlier than MWIF. I know -- I beta-tested it. It's a good game.

I am confused by the last several posts, are you referring to Talon Softs 3rd Reich computer game? If you are we are at odds about the game. The graphics were alright the rules were the same as the board game but the AI stunk to high heaven, and when we all screamed at Talon Soft you know what their stupid answer was, oh well the computer game will help you learn the board game better, biggest waste of money I ever put out. If its another company you are referring to please advise me as to the company and where I can purchase 3rd Reich, thank you.

Willy

I have played a bit of WiF many years ago, but my experience with WiF: Final Edition is limited to solitare CWiF. I have only played A3R solitare, so my experiences may not be typical.

That being said, here are my impressions. I think that you wanted a bit more detail than "WiF is great", right? I personally prefer WiF, but there are some points that A3R did better, imho.

Nobody has made the points that I think are pluses for A3R: diplomacy and research.

WiF has nothing like the diplomatic tables, in the base game. If you add in Days of Decision (DoD) or Politics in Flames (PoiF), WiF at least equals A3R, but without them, politics are very limited. Both DoD and PoiF have been mentioned as possible follow-up releases, by the way. The great thing about these add-ons is that they include the rivalries between smaller powers. If you do something that Turkey likes, it annoys Greece as an example. This was one of the better feature of the A3R diplomatic tables.

The research is almost totally absent. The closest thing is building ahead. Each unit has an availabilty year, and you can build them early at increased cost.

This brings us to one of the points where WiF shines. Each unit has a different set of factors. No more 5 factor air units or (almost) every Panzer is a 4-6. There is significant varriation within a major power's force pool.

I am also a fan of gearing limits. You cannot have your factories build 1,000 planes in January and switch intstantly to making 1,000 tanks in March. Your capacity is dependent upon what you built last turn.

I also find that I like the oil-dependent units rule. It adds another layer of realism. You have to choose the destination for oil, your factories or your gas tanks.

Thanks for all the answers. I most certainly will be buying WiF as soon as it's released. I've been curious as to why WiF had a bigger following though and just wrote it off as it being more mainstream. If it is a system that works good and is intuitive, I might just have the game I have always been looking for.

As to a future for ASL on computer, that would really be the best. I got into that game a bit right when Hasbro was going under and bought every module for it (and duplicate copies still in shrink wrap) with the hopes of finding opponents within my group of friends. They quickly tired of the rule reading and quit their efforts after only a few infantry scenarios. Since then I have studied the rules in detail and have found that I really enjoy the system so I, for one, would greatly benefit from a computer adaptation of it.

But that is another day.

Mike touched on the things I did like about A3R. The diplomatic consequences of activities depended on the nation involved. Not just generic rules. I do remember the rules for research being very tough to understand however. Yet it is WiF that we are getting and I should start preparing myself for it.

BTW, I have copies of A3R and Empire of the Rising Sun in shrink wrap also. I might just have to sell my duplicates of these games one day. Not doing me any good really.

Thanks again,
Mo Reb

ORIGINAL: mconder

Mo_Reb: Don't listen to the WiF fanbois! I like WiF and plan on buying the computer version but to say that it is universally greater than A3R is just plain WRONG in many respects. (Disclaimer: I'm not completely versed with A3R or World at War but played 3R very extensively - and A3R is a modest improvement IMO). Two of the areas where 3R excels is play balance and the armor exploitation rules - which are a thing of beauty if used correctly - especially on the Russian front. 3R is unmatched for representing the ebb and flow across the Steppe. Yes, people will endlessly rag on the 9 factor fleets and such...and there are some valid complaints...but it is still one of the best strategic games ever printed.

When you said "World at War", was that a typo? You were talking about World in Flames, or not?

ORIGINAL: Missouri Rebel

Thanks for all the answers. I most certainly will be buying WiF as soon as it's released. I've been curious as to why WiF had a bigger following though and just wrote it off as it being more mainstream. If it is a system that works good and is intuitive, I might just have the game I have always been looking for.

WiF FE is released since 1996, you can buy it right now [;)]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

When you said "World at War", was that a typo? You were talking about World in Flames, or not?

No. He means A World At War which is a game that incorporates more clearly the rules from A3R and EotRS into a full global campaign and expands on the original.

Boardgame Geek

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mo reb

Edit: Got me there Froonp (how do you pronounce that again?). I mean MWIF, not just another box collecting dust. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Missouri Rebel
No. He means A World At War which is a game that incorporates more clearly the rules from A3R and EotRS into a full global campaign and expands on the original.

Matrix is supposedly going to develop a computer version of Harper's A World at War at some point. Something I mentioned before the Matrix site crashed a few years back is that the guy who did the fabulous box art for WiF (Rodger MacGowan) also helped develop AWaW, both art and game mechanics.

As far as comparing the two games, some prefer the shorter play time of A3R, and by extension, AWaW, with seasonal turns, whereas I am among those who like the unpredictability of the impulse system of WiF.

ORIGINAL: coregames

ORIGINAL: Missouri Rebel
No. He means A World At War which is a game that incorporates more clearly the rules from A3R and EotRS into a full global campaign and expands on the original.

Matrix is supposedly going to develop a computer version of Harper's A World at War at some point. Something I mentioned before the Matrix site crashed a few years back is that the guy who did the fabulous box art for WiF (Rodger MacGowan) also helped develop AWaW, both art and game mechanics.

As far as comparing the two games, some prefer the shorter play time of A3R, and by extension, AWaW, with monthly turns, whereas I am among those who like the unpredictability of the impulse system of WiF.

I thought I saw that this project was cancelled 2 or 3 years ago. I could be wrong.