Matrix Games Forums

Hello,

I made a search under "translation in the game forum" and I didn't find conclusive info, so forgive me all of you if I am repeating matters already debated.

I would like to know if there is the idea of translating the game itself ( a Titan's work, and I believe an impossible matter in the time left) or at least the manual or the tutorial.

I have taken part (led?) in the translation of the manual of the game Pax Romana with the help of various other volunteers, and it was nice to contribute, although the Developer dissapeared before the game could be finally 100% and widely distributed, which was frustrating.

Of course, we WIF players are a minority, although a significative minority in our countries, but 99% of us can hadle English to a certain extent or we would not be able to learn and check the rules. However, I think the target public of the game is not only board wargamers, and they need to learn it.

I am sorry to say that although in my country we learn English as a second language, the results are usually pretty poor and the vast majority of people are light years away from reading a complex text, not to speak about understanding a conversation or taking part on it. As far as I know, the situation in Latin America is usually the same if not worse.

That's why I believe it would be essential for the 400 million spanish speaking market that at least the manual or tutorial are in spanish if the game needs to be sold here. Since this "localization" task is usually made by distributors, it would be Matrix matter, but if in case they are not planning to do so, maybe here has been made or we can make our own initiative.

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Hello,

I made a search under "translation in the game forum" and I didn't find conclusive info, so forgive me all of you if I am repeating matters already debated.

I would like to know if there is the idea of translating the game itself ( a Titan's work, and I believe an impossible matter in the time left) or at least the manual or the tutorial.

I have taken part (led?) in the translation of the manual of the game Pax Romana with the help of various other volunteers, and it was nice to contribute, although the Developer dissapeared before the game could be finally 100% and widely distributed, which was frustrating.

Of course, we WIF players are a minority, although a significative minority in our countries, but 99% of us can hadle English to a certain extent or we would not be able to learn and check the rules. However, I think the target public of the game is not only board wargamers, and they need to learn it.

I am sorry to say that although in my country we learn English as a second language, the results are usually pretty poor and the vast majority of people are light years away from reading a complex text, not to speak about understanding a conversation or taking part on it. As far as I know, the situation in Latin America is usually the same if not worse.

That's why I believe it would be essential for the 400 million spanish speaking market that at least the manual or tutorial are in spanish if the game needs to be sold here. Since this "localization" task is usually made by distributors, it would be Matrix matter, but if in case they are not planning to do so, maybe here has been made or we can make our own initiative.

This breaks down as two tasks:
1 - use of English within the program (prompts and other messages).
2 - the Player's Manual.

Chris before me, and I, myself, have gone to great effort to make all embedded text in the program "resource strings". Delphi (the programming language I am using) places all resource strings in a separate DLL module of the executable, which could be translated by a person or persons without affecting the rest of the executable code. I do have some concerns about the length of strings post-translation. If there is only room for 30 characters on a form and the translation converts a 25 character string to a 35 character string, the latter will either be truncated or compressed.

Not all text on all forms are resource strings. A high percentage are (98+%), but I suspect there are some places where I have simply typed in the text without using resource strings.

The help messages are taken from separate TXT files, and those would all have to be translated too.

If someone wanted to translate all the unit writeups - well, good luck. The last time I counted there were over 500 pages of unit writeups.

And then there is the Players Manual (~250-300 pages). No attempt has been made to plan on that being translated, though I guess it would be fairly straight-forward to do so.
===
I'll mention this to Matrix, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Of course, all that is related to WIF is huge. When I saw for the first time the boardgame manual, and I started to see how the info had been pressed into it, and how every paragraph needed interpretation and analysis, to detect all the posible forms it could affect the game and the opportunities and risks, I compared it to a university subject.

I am a forgetful person and, athough I read the manual once and have read some parts of it several times, I am still far from really knowing the game totally in the board version. This is one of my motivations to translate it, I would force myself to learn the MWIF through it!

Of course the work cannot be done by one person and it would need a team and, although it would be necessary to translate the manual and maybe the help texts and tutorial (if there is - sorry, didn't check yet) it is unrealistic to think about the writewups (i undestand, they consist of the description of the units, mostly) and possibly unnecessary for the gameplay.

The "Pax Romana" manual was only about 55 pages and, however, it was not easy to do because we divided the parts of the manual among the translators and the implication of each in the project and their time availability was different, which made it take longer than we had thought, until all the parts could be put together and the whole of it supervised for minor defects.

I don't know if it is possible or if there will be volunteers for it, it's just and idea, but I think if it is possible, it's a nice idea. If Matrix doesn't have it's own localization plans, and they and you are not against the translation by "us", I could try to search for some voulteers and then we would see if it is possible or not.

Cuenta conmigo Nacho [:D]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Of course, all that is related to WIF is huge. When I saw for the first time the boardgame manual, and I started to see how the info had been pressed into it, and how every paragraph needed interpretation and analysis, to detect all the posible forms it could affect the game and the opportunities and risks, I compared it to a university subject.

Please, don't fall in the trap of too much interpretation and analysis.
The rules rather are pretty much straitforward.

Cuenta conmigo Nacho

Froonp:

Of course, a translation is a translation[:D] I was only meaning that to learn WIF (the boardgame) is very complex, no that the manual should be subject to interpretation...

We have had hundreds of doubts, for example wether a HQ can give emergency supply while unsupplied itself, and wether one of the supplied units can be the HQ itself, about wether it would be possible for a bomber whose range is 4 to bomb from the off-map to the russian area south of Askhangelsk (a swamp, I believe) and come back , since it takes more movement to reach the off map.

And a lot of questions like these. But fortunately translating a text doesn't mean giving answers to all this, no? [;)]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Cuenta conmigo Nacho

Froonp:

Of course, a translation is a translation[:D] I was only meaning that to learn WIF (the boardgame) is very complex, no that the manual should be subject to interpretation...

We have had hundreds of doubts, for example wether a HQ can give emergency supply while unsupplied itself, and wether one of the supplied units can be the HQ itself, about wether it would be possible for a bomber whose range is 4 to bomb from the off-map to the russian area south of Askhangelsk (a swamp, I believe) and come back , since it takes more movement to reach the off map.

And a lot of questions like these. But fortunately translating a text doesn't mean giving answers to all this, no? [;)]

The FAQ that is currently available answers a couple of those questions: Yes an HQ can can provide emergency supply even when OOS itself and No, the HQ cannot supply itself, only non-HQ units.

As for the translation idea, I think it's great and I'm a little unsure why something that would benefit sales is getting what I'd call a fairly cool reception. Although it is true that the volume of work required might be intimidating.

Also there is always the concern that an error in translation could lead to someone blaming the publisher when the publisher likely does not have the resources to verify all that is translated. OTOH, it is only a game isn't it?

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Also there is always the concern that an error in translation could lead to someone blaming the publisher when the publisher likely does not have the resources to verify all that is translated. OTOH, it is only a game isn't it?

Only a game?! ONLY A GAME?! Blasphemer!

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Cuenta conmigo Nacho

Froonp:

Of course, a translation is a translation[:D] I was only meaning that to learn WIF (the boardgame) is very complex, no that the manual should be subject to interpretation...

We have had hundreds of doubts, for example wether a HQ can give emergency supply while unsupplied itself, and wether one of the supplied units can be the HQ itself, about wether it would be possible for a bomber whose range is 4 to bomb from the off-map to the russian area south of Askhangelsk (a swamp, I believe) and come back , since it takes more movement to reach the off map.

And a lot of questions like these. But fortunately translating a text doesn't mean giving answers to all this, no? [;)]

The FAQ that is currently available answers a couple of those questions: Yes an HQ can can provide emergency supply even when OOS itself and No, the HQ cannot supply itself, only non-HQ units.

As for the translation idea, I think it's great and I'm a little unsure why something that would benefit sales is getting what I'd call a fairly cool reception. Although it is true that the volume of work required might be intimidating.

Also there is always the concern that an error in translation could lead to someone blaming the publisher when the publisher likely does not have the resources to verify all that is translated. OTOH, it is only a game isn't it?

Translations are hard. Which language(s)? How would it increase sales? [&:]

I have this song I learned which goes through most of the current countries - though not all. Now some of them use the same language but then there are other countries that use multiple languages. The song names 196 countries - and misses about a dozen others.

As it is, writing in English is difficult enough for me.[;)]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Also there is always the concern that an error in translation could lead to someone blaming the publisher when the publisher likely does not have the resources to verify all that is translated. OTOH, it is only a game isn't it?

Only a game?! ONLY A GAME?! Blasphemer!

LOL. English Blasphemer! (sort of)

gee, we have similar rules questions even when we start out in English with no translation required. we think.

but I think there are groups in a lot of European countries that have already translated the boardgame rules at least. German, French, and Italian are definitely done, I suspect Spanish as well.

ORIGINAL: brian brian
...
but I think there are groups in a lot of European countries that have already translated the boardgame rules at least. German, French, and Italian are definitely done, I suspect Spanish as well.

Buenos Dias,

There is one, at the "Wif Discussion" Yahoo Group : it is dated Aug 1, 2002 - it's called "Wiffe.pdf" and there is the following comment with the file "WIF en español con reglas desde 1936 y caseras" - but that comment or the file itself, I understand nada de nada [;)]

Hope this helps,

Alain

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Translations are hard. Which language(s)? How would it increase sales? [&:]

I have this song I learned which goes through most of the current countries - though not all. Now some of them use the same language but then there are other countries that use multiple languages. The song names 196 countries - and misses about a dozen others.

As it is, writing in English is difficult enough for me.[;)]

I must say that in Quebec where we talk french but most of the gaming community talks english as well, often we prefer buying the english version of a PC game even if it exists a french version. If the original version is english you have less chances of having bugs and have a better support from the english version.

Ánimo, Jose Ignacio. En lo que permita mi inglés, cuenta conmigo.

ORIGINAL: truan_es

Ánimo, Jose Ignacio. En lo que permita mi inglés, cuenta conmigo.

eso hace a tres voluntarios ya

one third of the work each!

ORIGINAL: Caquineur

ORIGINAL: brian brian
...
but I think there are groups in a lot of European countries that have already translated the boardgame rules at least. German, French, and Italian are definitely done, I suspect Spanish as well.

Buenos Dias,

There is one, at the "Wif Discussion" Yahoo Group : it is dated Aug 1, 2002 - it's called "Wiffe.pdf" and there is the following comment with the file "WIF en español con reglas desde 1936 y caseras" - but that comment or the file itself, I understand nada de nada [;)]

Hope this helps,

Alain

To be true, I have had few experience with the spanish translation of the WIF rules because my friends, who have more experience in playing the board game told me they were not totally exact.

I am not trying to diminish the huge effort made by the unknown (to me ) group who translated them, not even the results, because translating so much text with so much specific "jergon" with a 99% of exactitude is an extraordinary achievement, but in a text with thousands of rules with exceptions, optional rules, etc., an 1% of inexact translation was unacceptable for us, because it could be a misinterpretation, for example, of the "extra distance supply in the desert" . A few of these rules slightly differently translated and the game changes seriously and for bad.

As for the countries who can use equally english and their own language, I would say it depends on the widespread of their language in the world, which forces them to understand English or have serious limitations in every aspect: business, fims ... (too expensive to be translated for a small amount of people...).

According to this, and according to my experience, we can find that many Scandinavian and Hollanders are bilingual (or almost) but it does not happen the same with french and german people, whose languages are used by substantially more people. Although they usually attain a certain level of English, it is definitively lower as an average.

As for Spain, and the spanish speaking community, the sheer number, and the fact that a good part of the business and cultural relations are dealt with Latin American countries makes the need of it less intense and the average level after leaving high school (the top of the level they will have, usually) is medium only if we are optimistic. Because of this, many cannot understand manuals in English, or they can do poorly and with great effort, and so, the fact that a game is translated or not is a serious matter, if not determinant, when they are thinking of buying a new game.

ORIGINAL: truan_es

Ánimo, Jose Ignacio. En lo que permita mi inglés, cuenta conmigo.

Ok, we will see if there is finally a translation. Anyway, welcome to the ship, we sail or not.

Nacho me gusta tu avatar.. Lástima que no haya un "Durruti" disponible entre las fichas del WIF si lo hubiera me lo ponia yo [:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: jaimain

Nacho me gusta tu avatar.. Lástima que no haya un "Durruti" disponible entre las fichas del WIF si lo hubiera me lo ponia yo [:D][:D][:D]

Era el único HQ republicano.

PD: I have not read any specific policy but I guess the possible moderator/administrator would prefer to have all the messages in English, so I'll translate:

"It was the only Republican HQ"